Please help with closed loop design

[Arnett]

I use a hammerhead on my tank no closed loop Its a real nice pump for the $ 5 years and still going.
My tanks almost the same size 96 by 36 by 32 < i had to add 5 tunze to mine now that its a reef! If i was to do it over i would have done two or three small pumps one for sump and two for a cloosed loop, so your on the right start with a closed loop in my eyes!
My reason for wanting to go with more pumps now would be the fact of turning one or two off when needed say make it come at night , change the flow at times , service a pump.
Prolbems ive had is flow on the lower back of tank , my rock just kills it theres dead spots , since my pump is not a closed loop i only have the returns just under the water .I would love too have 3 or 4 returns on the back of the tank,to push foward, and 2 on each of the sides to puch out about half way down , but thats just me !
also I run my hammerhead wide open with 1 1/2 input and 6 returns 1 inch the 1 inch slow it down just so i dont have two. I would ballvale every thing also, never no when u want are need to close it!
goodluck

[jahorgos]

Originally Posted by tommyb

Do you think that would be enough flow in a tank that size?

I don't plan on selling this since I would have to take down the wall to get it out, but you never know.

I think for now it would be as long as you keep a fairly open layout that doesn't block them. Plus you could always add one or two further down the road although unless you pack this thing with sps my guess is 2 will serve your well for a while. I'm hugely against closed loop because you are stuck with its flow patterns and you destroy the tank with holes.

Also (off topic) remember return pumps are not meant for flow but to heat and clean the water. I would say 2 eheim 1262 pumps will keep it quiet and have plenty of turn over. I mention this because people tend to go overboard on turn over and wonder why they have a billion microbubbles.

Some other suggestions would be to keep your rock layout well away from the glass, even in the back. This will allow you to easily clean the tank with a scraper and help keep flow moving nicely.

[tommyb]

Originally Posted by barcuda71

Since I know you stated that you are going to use the Hammerhead for your closed loop, I thought I would explain my experience with using the Hammerhead as a return pump. I am currently using the Hammerhead for my 300, same dimensions as yours other than it is six inches taller, for the return on my setup. I have the return going from 1.5" to 1.0" as it enters my tank from the back. There are six 1.0" bulkheads that are used for this. The pump sits on the ground about four feet from where the bulkheads are located. I have the Hammerhead throttled back about halfway right now, until future plans, since I can't remove the water fast enough. This pumps jams. There are three overflow boxes, two in the corner and one in the center that contain both an 1.0" and 0.75" drains to the refugium. For my closed loop, I am using the Dart which feeds two 1.5" returns through the bottom of my tank. I have each one of the returns splitting into two using loclines. Now looking back after cutting holes for the closed loop, which are located more or less in the middle outer of the tank, I think I would have rather placed the holes further towards the back of the tank on the bottom or towards the bottom of the tank on the back wall since it was challenging to disguise them with aquascaping in my tank. I don't know if anything here I wrote is of any help for you, but that is how my tank is setup. If you havent' seen my build, here is the link: 300 Gallon Facelift

That does help and you have a very nice tank and build thread. There are a few ideas that I will be stealing.

Originally Posted by reefone

i dont think it will be enough flow. ive got 2 k3's along with my mp40's.

That is what I was thinking and I don't want a bunch of power heads in the tank. Thanks

Originally Posted by Arnett

I use a hammerhead on my tank no closed loop Its a real nice pump for the $ 5 years and still going.
My tanks almost the same size 96 by 36 by 32 < i had to add 5 tunze to mine now that its a reef! If i was to do it over i would have done two or three small pumps one for sump and two for a cloosed loop, so your on the right start with a closed loop in my eyes!
My reason for wanting to go with more pumps now would be the fact of turning one or two off when needed say make it come at night , change the flow at times , service a pump.
Prolbems ive had is flow on the lower back of tank , my rock just kills it theres dead spots , since my pump is not a closed loop i only have the returns just under the water .I would love too have 3 or 4 returns on the back of the tank,to push foward, and 2 on each of the sides to puch out about half way down , but thats just me !
also I run my hammerhead wide open with 1 1/2 input and 6 returns 1 inch the 1 inch slow it down just so i dont have two. I would ballvale every thing also, never no when u want are need to close it!
goodluck

Good ideas, thanks. I have a Dart for my return. I was thinking of selling/trading the Hammerhead and replacing it with another Dart so I would have 2 Darts on a Closed Loop and then get a smaller return pump for my sump. But, I think I should just go with what I have now and get this tank going.

Originally Posted by jahorgos

I think for now it would be as long as you keep a fairly open layout that doesn't block them. Plus you could always add one or two further down the road although unless you pack this thing with sps my guess is 2 will serve your well for a while. I'm hugely against closed loop because you are stuck with its flow patterns and you destroy the tank with holes.

Also (off topic) remember return pumps are not meant for flow but to heat and clean the water. I would say 2 eheim 1262 pumps will keep it quiet and have plenty of turn over. I mention this because people tend to go overboard on turn over and wonder why they have a billion microbubbles.

Some other suggestions would be to keep your rock layout well away from the glass, even in the back. This will allow you to easily clean the tank with a scraper and help keep flow moving nicely.

Good ideas. I am thinking of using PVC or something similar to attach the rocks to so I don't have 3 big piles of rocks creating big dead spots.

I can't see myself spending that much money on Vortechs so I think I will just stick with the CL. Thanks for the suggestion though. If I had the $$$ I would probbly go that route.

[reefone]

Originally Posted by Arnett

Prolbems ive had is flow on the lower back of tank , my rock just kills it theres dead spots

this is the same problem i have even with the 4 power heads and ive got a real open rock scape. i would suggest u put a couple outputs down low on the back wall.

[DLBerlin]

Originally Posted by jahorgos

I'm hugely against closed loop because you are stuck with its flow patterns and you destroy the tank with holes.
.

I love my closed loop!
I have 8 outlets, each with an adjustable nozzle so I can easily adjust where they point, and each with a ball valve so I can adjust the flow from each output as needed.
I run mine with a single Hammerhead pump, 2 inlets to reduce the chance of fish getting stuck on an intake or something plugging it. 4 outlets spaced across the back behind the rockwork, and 4 across the front.
I also run 2 Tunze 6060's for some added flow.
I am very happy with it.

[tommyb]

Originally Posted by DLBerlin

I love my closed loop!
I have 8 outlets, each with an adjustable nozzle so I can easily adjust where they point, and each with a ball valve so I can adjust the flow from each output as needed.
I run mine with a single Hammerhead pump, 2 inlets to reduce the chance of fish getting stuck on an intake or something plugging it. 4 outlets spaced across the back behind the rockwork, and 4 across the front.
I also run 2 Tunze 6060's for some added flow.
I am very happy with it.

Where did you drill for the outlets? I can't seem to find pics in your build thread. Your manifold looks awesome. What size inlets did you use?

[DLBerlin]

The 2 inlets are in the back of the tank, about 1/2 way up, on either side of the center overflow. They are both 1-1/2"
The 8 outlets are coming up through the bottom of the tank, and each is 1/2"
I'll see if I can find a pic that shows it.

Here's one showing the outlets before I had all the sand in

[TomToro]

Hey Tom,
Just throwing my opinion in here. I have the same tank as you and flow is my constant problem. I have two return lines (3/4")from the sump(s). One from a Mag 7 and another from a Mag 24.

I have 5 Koralia 4's and one Tunze 6125. Not even close to enough flow for the length of this tank so I like the idea of a closed loop and am planning one out now. Unfortunately I have a running reef so I'll have to do something over the top or near the top. That limits me. I wanted the get this tank up and running before I thought things out. So I think you're doing the right thing asking for lots of suggestions.

I like the idea of having two closed loops in a tank this long and Dent recommended this to me in the past for my 240.

I'm also on board with the inlet being of sufficient size (something that's bugged me about my 135) so your pump can be as efficient as possible.

I like Deb's setup because it allows flow all over and around LR without blowing the sand.

If room allows I'd like my pump(s) to be mounted level with the bottom of the dt or as close to the cl as possible. Dent has his mounted in this way.

A manifold is a must and I like the individual valves for each output nozzle. We also incorporated a drain into the cl so with just a valve, I can drain as much of the tank as I want (very quickly) and with another valve, add fresh saltwater for my water change.

Last, if you end up selling the Hammerhead, let me know. I have a Dart that I'd be replacing and we could work out a deal (with money too of course).

Good luck and I'll be watching closely to see what I can use in my setup. It's gonna be great.

Tom

[tommyb]

Thanks again to everyone for their ideas and comments so far. How does this look for the mainfold?


I can still return this stuff if I need to. It is 1.5" coming up from the pump into the manifold where all of the tee's are 1.5". Going to the valves I reduced it to .5" and then I still need to decide on where to put the holes. I am thinking about doing it like Deb's from the bottom.

Deb- How did you hide these?

Here is a quick updated shot from today:




On a side note, what do you think of this for the stand? I have had mixed reviews so far.

[DLBerlin]

The outlets along the back are hidden by the rockwork, and the ones in front come up just above the sandbed. They covered in coraline pretty fast and dont show too bad.

I think I would have put a 2x8 frame over the cement block to even up and distribute the weight better.

[ryan72]

Originally Posted by tommyb

Thanks again to everyone for their ideas and comments so far. How does this look for the mainfold?


I can still return this stuff if I need to. It is 1.5" coming up from the pump into the manifold where all of the tee's are 1.5". Going to the valves I reduced it to .5" and then I still need to decide on where to put the holes. I am thinking about doing it like Deb's from the bottom.

Deb- How did you hide these?

Here is a quick updated shot from today:




On a side note, what do you think of this for the stand? I have had mixed reviews so far.

I would put a sheet or 2 of plywood (spar urethane covered) over the cement blocks so that it distributes weight more evenly and you can more easily set a sump or other reef toys on it.

[TomToro]

How come it takes my contractor and painter three months to do light construction and you get your's done in a couple of weeks?

Looks very good already, Tom. I'm impressed with the progress.

[dentdominator]

Tom, The manifold looks great however, I would add an additional valve for quick water changes. Do you have a sump pump in that utility room? If so, then plumb the water change output to the sump. Mine just pumps it outside the house and down the hill etc.

The stand looks scary, I would make sure the metal stand sits flat on a surface of concrete or wood etc. Or, just build a new stand made of 4X4's, then you can utilize underneath the tank for a sump, storage, cloosed loop plumbing etc. Looks like wasted space under the tank with that stand.

The basement is looking good !!!

[tommyb]

Originally Posted by ryan72

I would put a sheet or 2 of plywood (spar urethane covered) over the cement blocks so that it distributes weight more evenly and you can more easily set a sump or other reef toys on it.

Do you think this is 100% necessary? If so I will have to take off the top layer of cinder blocks because the tank will be too high off of the ground in relation to where the hole in the wall is. If I do this I might as well just build a 4x4 stand for it. This is going to be hard for me since I a tore my ACL. Also, I need to get this running by December 3rd when I go in for surgery or it will be pushed back another month.

[tommyb]

Originally Posted by TomToro

How come it takes my contractor and painter three months to do light construction and you get your's done in a couple of weeks?

Looks very good already, Tom. I'm impressed with the progress.

The guy that is finishing the basement works about 8 hours a day 6 days a week. He lives 4 houses down so it is pretty easy for him to be here.

He hooked me up with 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits for the fish room.