[Emprr_angl]

hey guys, how do you feel about biological contamination?

every drop of water that gets dumped down the sink or tiolet or fish that gets flushed or coral that croaks and stinks to high-heaven goes straight into a fresh water water shed. bacteria are notorius for being able to survive harsh conditions such as huge tempature gradients in just centimeters of water and there are bacteria that arent even carbon based but living here on earth!

do you think the US should ban the sale of marine life? ban the sale of wild marine life only? and sell only life that is bred in captivity in tropical zone?

these are valid points to our area since the zevbra mussle which is native to the salt water of the black sea has taken over the great lakes and inland lakes. i'm interested in everyons thoughts

ttyl,

 

[wheatbre]

??

Can you name an invasive species that has appeared in the Great Lakes system due to the dumping or flushing of marine water from home aquariums? And if so what effect has it had on the system?

 

[DLBerlin]

Well I really dont think that the pet industry has alot of affect on it.
I never really heard of any great barrier in the ocean that keeps tropic or temperate bacteria on thier own little side of the line. The bacteria that can survive in either place I would assume already are there.
So you dont have a tank anymore? And now you've come back to convince us that we shouldnt either I take it?
I dont think they ban sale of marine life for the pet industry.
I fully support captive breeding programs.
I fully support limitations on the types and amounts of life imported.
But not because of any fairytale bacteria contamination stories.
I think I do more damage doing a load of laundry than doing a water change.

 

[wheatbre]

I AGREE

 

[DLBerlin]

I AGREE

LOL-with who!

 

[icanclimbthat]

I would point out that the new laws on ballast water. Are to dump the fresh out in the ocean. In favor of bringing massive saltwater dumps into the lakes

In all honesty I don't spend any time at all worrying about it. With the ease at which some of the items in my tank die off. With something as simple a 2 or 3 degree temperature change or insignificant pH change. The entire tank will go belly up.

So dumping any of it into my 60 degree toilet water, with a 2 or 3 point pH change. And then chasing it will 5 gallons of 120-130 degree water from ye old bathtub, or peroxide, or bleach, or all of the above.

I sleep just fine at night.

 

[ystmarroon]

The amount of damage we do is miniscule to the amount of damage farms and lawn companies do with pesticides, and fertilizers. Think about it. How many homes have a lawn? Now how many have saltwater fish tanks? Not a ratio of even proportion.

And on the point of the zebra mussle. What is wrong with the overabundance of an animal that's only function in life is to filter the water of nitrate based wastes and algae? Not to mention for fish (ie. muskee) that was previously in danger of becoming a scarce fish in the Great Lakes due to the lack of clarity in the water which they need to survive.

If it were up to the "environmentalists" we would be wiped clean off the earth so that the land could go without us. I personally think that we can aid in the reconstruction of the problems we have caused. Fact is we aren't going anywhere. At least not anytime soon. As long as we learn from our mistakes and use it to our advantage, we can limit, or possibly reverse the damage we have caused.

This is what I beleive. And what I feel. I have a serious problem with people who think we are the sole cause for the destruction of a species or biotype. There are many things beyond our control that do plenty of damage. Does anyone remember the 3 hurricanes a few weeks ago? There have been many cataclismic events that have caused these types of problems. I think we can actually be a solution

That's my 2 cents. Do with it as you will.

 

[greenb]

And on the point of the zebra mussle. What is wrong with the overabundance of an animal that's only function in life is to filter the water of nitrate based wastes and algae? Not to mention for fish (ie. muskee) that was previously in danger of becoming a scarce fish in the Great Lakes due to the lack of clarity in the water which they need to survive.

Actually the zebra mussle is quite damaging. There was just a report on www.underwatertimes.com about the damage the zebra mussel is doing to the great lakes. It's essentially killing off bacteria and algeas that are the life support of the great lakes. If we don't do something about them soon the lakes will be in very bad shape.

I'm sorry,, hopefully this doesn't take this to far off topic.

 

[Kenbow19]

I think after eating Taco Bell, i do more contamination than my tank.

 

[wheatbre]

I agree with you DlBerlin. The only point I was trying to make was that Emprr_angl is concerned with marine aquarium enthusiast dumping a small amount of water into drains weekly when in reality the amounts of water brought in by ship ballasts is who knows how much greater and more dangerous to the Great Lakes. When you look at the comparison between the two and which has made a greater impact on the Great Lakes it really makes no sense why he would go after marine aquarium enthusiasts. Notice this quote “James Carlton concluded that on any given day at least 7,000 species of "aquatic hitchhikers" are probably present in the ballast water en route between continents. Every 12-14 weeks on average, yet another alien species manages to establish itself in U.S. coastal waters.” If he feels the need to write letters to anyone it should be to the ship owners, or maybe to the nations allowing these ships to import non-indigenous species into Canada and the US. He should also consider who he addresses if someone tries to put there hippo tang who out grew there 10 gallon saltwater tank into some inland lake the tang has zero chance of living. Now if some college student thought it would be cool to dump his two piranhas into the same lake one night which has a chance of doing more damage. I guess he wasn't really talking about fish but it still can relate in a way.

 

[ofblong]

I think after eating Taco Bell, i do more contamination than my tank.

exactly

 

[icanclimbthat]

exactly

Taco bell contamination is threatening to break up my marriage

 

[ofblong]

hahahaha. I get that every morning. the "geeze why do you have to do that right next to me" quote haha.

 

[DLBerlin]

The filtering of the water by the zebra mussels has caused some new problems:

Toxic algae blooming in area lakes; scientists blame zebra mussels
http://www.mlive.com/news/muchronicle/index.ssf?/base/news-5/109800815086820.xml

I agree-the freshwater pet trade has much more potential for damaging inland Lakes and streams than the marine trade.

While the zebra mussel is a very valid problem, it was not caused by the pet trade. Actually I've never heard of any problems like this being caused by the marine pet trade.Only freshwater.

 

[Emprr_angl]

Calm down guys this is a scientific discussion, not a religious discussion. i'm not dictating anything on what you should or should not do. i'm not telling you that youll rot in the firey depths of the sepulture if you dont give up your home reef, lol. its just to stimulate thinking, that is all. so please share your thoughts even if you think theyre only worth 2cents. at least, this is far more fun than talking about "How many watts of light should I put on a 55gallon tank?"

replies...

Can you name an invasive species that has appeared in the Great Lakes system due to the dumping or flushing of marine water from home aquariums? And if so what effect has it had on the system?

Yes i can.

Pterois volitans (lion fish) is non-native to the atlantic ocean. there are reports of sightings as far north as cape cod.

Condylactis gigantea (condy anenome) is also non-native to the atlantic. the clown fish is an extinct species in this biotope.

The EU has declared the mediterranean an ecological disaster because caulerpa has overgrown everything.

Closer to home...the dreissena polymorpha (zebra mussles) are filtering algae and sediment in the water of the great lakes effectively destroying the natural habitat of stizostedion vitreum (walleye). stizostedion vitreum is very light sensitive. the clean and clear water that dreissena polymorpha creates causes stizostedion vitreum to seek deeper and more remote waters seperating it from the schools of bait fish.

Neogobius melanostomus (round goby) has destroyed the schools of bait fish that once dominated the near shore waters of the great lakes.

Channa micropeltes (chinese snakehead) has been ravaging the waters of the inland lakes and ponds of the eastern us. this species is of particular importantance due to its ability to survive outside of water for up to 48hours.

In aquarium waste water there could be millions of species of bacteria and microscopic organisms. really...the average aquarist is playing a guessing game on exactly what the contents of the system really are. simple fact is we just dont know. yes, the instant pH drops or rises in water the organism goes bye bye. buuut what if they dont? what if out of the millions...something survives...

Weather these species ceom from the home aquarium or the ballasts of oceanbound vessels. theyre here and what are we going to do about it and what are we going to do to prevent it in the future?

Emprr_angl is concerned with marine aquarium enthusiast dumping a small amount of water into drains weekly when in reality the amounts of water brought in by ship ballasts is who knows how much greater and more dangerous to the Great Lakes.

right on. i've seen this with my own eyes. being a fisherman of the great lakes. i've never seen a coast gaurd patrolling the waters. its pretty much a free for all. i've seen 55gallon barrels of unknown contents being dumped overboard in saginaw bay, questioning my father why we dont do anything. dad says we dont want to get involved...and what are we going to do anyway?

The amount of damage we do is miniscule to the amount of damage farms and lawn companies do with pesticides, and fertilizers.

again right on.

does your lawn really need to be green green? hm, those signs that tell you not to walk on the grass after its been sprayed are scary. i know my animals (cats & dogs) have gotten sick from playing in the grass after a spray... beyond that, what purpose does it serve except to say to your neighbor, MMMY laaawn is greener than yours!

dont even get me started on golf courses...

it were up to the "environmentalists" we...

no need to get nasty. this is just conversation.

 

[ystmarroon]

Sorry. Guess I got a little fired up.

Yeah the zebra mussel is getting out of hand according to the articles I've read too. The problem I have is that when I'm on the boat in the river, the water still looks plenty murky. I just think they are blowing it out of proportion.

This seems to be a trend. I went to Jamaica on my honeymoon. I expected to see damaged reefs and very little coral. Well, I saw beautiful growing reefs with an abundance of corals that were doing rather well. I also saw full turtle grass beds full of urchins and sea stars. From what the media outlets tell me, the reefs are destroyed and beyond repair down there. Coulda fooled my eyes.

NO, I don't think they should ban the importation of marine life. That's not going to stop the ship ballasts from carrying the water. Maybe we need to have a treatment plant like in california to purify the water before it returns to our main supply.

Just a couple more thoughts. Another 2 cents!

 

[Somethingfishy]

First of all I'm not sure I like the attitude of the people on this thread. Where do you get of saying shippers are doing more damage than we are so its not are problem? This is a horrible attitude and this upsets me greatly. BUT I don't believe flushing aquarium water down our drains is going to do any damage. I am more concerned about species slowly getting wiped out because we want one in our tanks.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude but I think we as aquarist need to think of the impact we have on the environment. If we don't we will lose this hobby due to government enforcement.

Just had to vent a little bit

 

[tszetela]

troll

 

[DLBerlin]

First of all I'm not sure I like the attitude of the people on this thread. Where do you get of saying shippers are doing more damage than we are so its not are problem? This is a horrible attitude and this upsets me greatly. BUT I don't believe flushing aquarium water down our drains is going to do any damage. I am more concerned about species slowly getting wiped out because we want one in our tanks.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude but I think we as aquarist need to think of the impact we have on the environment. If we don't we will lose this hobby due to government enforcement.

I dont think anyone said that.
As I said I fully support captive breeding programs.
I fully support limitations on the types and amounts of life imported.
No one said we dont care.

 

[Somethingfishy]

I never said that you said we don't care If you didn't care you wouldn't be responding to this thread. I think all of us look at what impact we have on the environment. Its just what degree will we take to fix the problem.