[jimmie51]

I'm getting ready to change over from my 55 to a 75 gallon and I have a few questions. When I do the change is there anything special I should do with the substrate? I can't really cal it a DSB because it's crushed coral, but I treat it like one and it has all kinds of life in it. Also I want to possible switch over to using south down, but I don't wnat to go through redeveloping my sand bed. So I was thinking of putting the crushed coral back in the bottom and then putting the south down on top of it. Are there any problems with doing this? Thanks in advance for any advise you guys can give me.

Jim

 

[jzielke]

I am changing my tank out also and have been looking into it. One of the things is if you put sand on top of CC, I believe the sand will make it's way down to the bottom of the tank over time.

The CC will end up on the top anyways.

 

[gsxspeed98]

Yes the sand will eventually settle in the bottom. I dont' know though maybe if you put enough sand in some would manage to stay on top. Hopefully someone who has done it can give you more insight.

 

[jimmie51]

Thanks guys. I would just switch over, but there is so much life in there that I wouldn't want to lose. Maybe I'll just make a DSB in a fuge and stick with the Crushed coral.

Are there any precautions I should take in scraping out the crushed coral to put it n the new tank, or just shovel it out?

 

[coralboy]

Bigger problem is that when you remove the sand from the old tank you can unleash various chemical reactions. Many people have stable tanks and then transfer to a new tank and experience great instability. Part is due to release of chemicals, etc. that were chemically or biologically bound in the sand bed but were disturbed or released when transferred. I haven't seen anything from randy about the actual chemical reactions only reported experiences. The upshot is to make the transfer in a way that stirs or upsets the sand bed as little as possible and consider the new tank a start up and cycle it carefully keeping nutrient levels low and adding the live rock (if any) a month or so after set up.

 

[jimmie51]

I've heard that corlboy. I guess I'll just be real careful and do some testing before I start adding every thing in. I just don't want to leave all my live stock in buckets and foam boxes for any longer than I have to. I'll also plan on doing a couple big water changes in the next few weeks after.

 

[coralboy]

Sounds like a good plan. One thing I've learned in thsi hobby is that the patient approach is usually the best - never rush anything unless you have unlimited $$$$. I think doubling up on your water changes is prudent. Watch for nitrates and possibly a nitrite spike. I've seen algal blooms arise in the these cases so watch for them. Only turh type algae should be a big concern. Have fun and good luck

 

[PaintGuru]

If it is not a DSB, or greater than 2" or so, I wouldnt worry about releasing anything. Have you stirred/cleaned/vacuumed it in the past?

 

[jimmie51]

I've never vaccumed it at all. One in a while I stir up the very top layer just to make it look better. There are so many bugs and worms in there that I wouldn't want to suck them all up. It's only about 2" deep, but the tank has been set up so long that it's crawling with cool life.

I do have another question about this though. I have a 65 gallon FOWLR that I take care of at work. It has a pretty deep sand bed and a couple of weeks ago I vacumed it and then I was out of town for a few days. I came back and the whole bottom is covered with red slim algea. Cyano I believe it's called. The numbers were off, but oour habits haven't changed at all. I was wondering do you think it's because I stirred up the lower levels? It's the only thing I can think of. It's been set up for about a year and that was the first time I vacumed it.

 

[Sylock]

You could put the Southdown in the new tank, then put the crushed coral in:
a) tupperware, and set the tupperware on the sand bed, the critters will migrate.
2) nylons, and put the nylons in your tank and the critters will migrate

 

[jimmie51]

You could put the Southdown in the new tank, then put the crushed coral in:
a) tupperware, and set the tupperware on the sand bed, the critters will migrate.
2) nylons, and put the nylons in your tank and the critters will migrate

Sweet I didn't realize they would do that. How long with that take? I won't have a lot of time because I don't have anywhere to keep all the live stock until the new tank would be ready.

What if I just put a good DSB of southdown in and then put the Crushed coral on top? I don't really care if it's sand or coral, I just want what's best biologically for the system I guess.

 

[Sylock]

You shouldn't mix the two. Either go one way or the other. The critters will migrate over time, some will migrate in a day, others would take a while. Patience, again, is key.

 

[tikki50]

I suggest the Tupperware method. I used it for my fuge and it worked out pretty well. I watched a bristle worm crawl out and into the sand. I used Tupperware lids (oh the wife was happy about that) so it stayed shallow enough or organisms to easily transfer I kept it in there for at least a week. I know have lots of life already in the sand.

 

[Dave]

You shouldn't mix the two. Either go one way or the other. The critters will migrate over time, some will migrate in a day, others would take a while. Patience, again, is key.

Why not?

It follows that the greatest biodiversity in the substrate would come from having multiple particle sizes. The more environmental niches you create, the more diverse and "natural" your little habitat will be. The only locations I can think of that have a base structure of fine particles like a DSB are silt beds and mangrove swamps (another silt bed, really). Actually, that's a remarkable correlation...deep sand beds and the nitrate, silicate, and phosphate rich silt beds of a swamp. But I digress...

If that's the environment you're trying to recreate, more power to you. But check out the substrate around actual reefs - you'll find that grain size is far from uniform.

A mixed substrate also gives burying fish and shrimp some needed structure. Jawfish or shrimp/goby pairs make great examples. A simple sandbed does them no good, they need pebbles or crushed coral fragments mixed in with the sand to form a good home.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[PaintGuru]

I don't see the need to add more substrate...you risk turning it into a DSB. Your critters will be fine if you are that worried about them.

 

[Sylock]

Well the sand will fall to the bottom for one reason. So you'll have crushed coral on top of sand. I have nothing but southdown in my tank, yet somehow I have a huge variety of sizes (from bits of live rock breakage, to little clumps, etc).

You'll find that sand and crushed coral don't mix well because the sizes are so much different (factors of 10-100x the size). It wouldn't be bad to have 'some' crushed coral in there, but not a huge mix.

 

[coralboy]

I don't see how mixing the two substrates will cause any problem. The crushed coral will probably migrat eto the bottom over time. It will help to seed the new sand bed to use some of the old to get it started. If its that rich in life you can probably sell excess "live sand" and pay for your Southdown. Just be careful transfering it. I'd recommend setting up a bed of say two inches to three inches of Southdown in the new tank. The add a layer of the live sand (1 inch or so will do fine). Then add water but use the plate of bowl method so that the water does not stir up the sand bed too much. Fill to 1/4 and let sit till clear. Fill the tank 1/2 to 2/3 and let sit. Add rock, inhabitants, etc, and let sit for a day or so. Test the water. Make a water change if you get any rise in nitrates or nitrites. Keep feeding at 1/2 former level for a week or so. also keep lighting no more intense than previous. Take it slowly for the next month. Once seeded you can add more sand to deepen the sand bed. Plan your tank setup completely before starting

 

[Sylock]

"The crushed coral will probably migrat eto the bottom over time"
Just the opposite will occur.

Do some searches on reef central, you'll see no one mixes.

 

[coralboy]

I don't have crushed coral but my mix of sand and Seaflor special grade reef sand (a little smaller than crushed coral but not hugely so) has worked fine since '95. Over time the reef sand has worked its way down. the The fact that a group of people on Reef Central don't mix is not persuasive. Most are lemmings. Tell me the science of why or why not. In the reef the substres are often highly variable over a very shrot range. Why can't we in our tanks. Many people use the Southdown only for the reason that its far cheaper than anything else.

 

[Dave]

I also mix aragonite and sand...

My substrate (which varies between half an inch and two inches deep, depending on where my oh-so wonderful sifters have put it today) is approximately 3/4ths fine sand and one fourth aragonite (also the "Seafloor Special," if it matters) by weight with some bits and pieces of rubble and a bit of crushed coral mixed in.

Sure, you get a little migration, but it's not like all the sand falls to the bottom and all the crushed coral ends up on top. A well-sifted bed gets far too much turnover for that to happen.

I wouldn't use a half and half mixture, no, but I certainly like mixed substrates.