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Clownfish, Watchman Goby, and low pH

4815 Views 18 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  amc78cj7
Clownfish and Watchman Goby in love

One of my percula clowns was activing very wierd today. Laying on her side on the sandbed for a minute, then swimming around the entire tank normal for a minute, then returning to the same spot and laying on her side on the sandbed for a minute, etc.

I checked the water parameters and everything is normal, except pH had dropped from 8.4 to 7.8.

So I add buffer and get the pH back to 8.4. Then I notice the pistol shrimp and yellow watchman goby emerge from their cave right where the clown had been laying. I then notice the clown "pairing" with the goby, but the goby isn't happy and keeps nipping at her.

I've now fed the tank and the clown is acting normal, but only an inch or so from the goby.

What's up? Could pH 7.8 harm the clown? Could the clown be falling for the goby? Or is the goby beating up the clown and she's just into bad boys? The clown usuallly hangs around her other clown mate, but now is more interested in the goby???

Tank parameters:

salt 1.023
temp 79.3
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
pH was 7.8; now back to 8.4
calcium 420
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Low pH won't do that. How quickly did you raise the pH...sudden shifts will harm inhabitants. Hopefully you raised it over a long period of time.

How long has the tank been up? How long has the clown been in the tank?
Low pH won't do that. How quickly did you raise the pH...sudden shifts will harm inhabitants. Hopefully you raised it over a long period of time.

How long has the tank been up? How long has the clown been in the tank?
Tanks been up about 2 months. Clowns were added about 4 weeks ago. It's still behaving this morning like it's sick, just laying on the bottom. But then it gets up and swims around in normal clown fashion (not jerking or anything wierd).

I fed the tank last night and she ate in normal behavior too. She swam around for about an hour then went back to the "sleeping on her side" - swimming - sleeping behavior.

Everything else in the tank seems fine.
How quickly did you raise pH?
Very. The directions for the Seachem Reef builder state to use 1/2 teaspoon mixed in 1 Cup water for every 40 gallons to raise it 0.25. I added 1 teaspoon in 2 cups water added to my overflow (41 gallon tank), so it went into the fuge to mix then back into the display tank. Within 30 minutes the pH had risen from 7.8 to 8.4 (right where it was for the first 7 weeks).
Very bad idea! I'm sure somewhere on the bottle it tells you not to raise it that much. Nothing in saltwater that is good happens fast. I hope they pull through. My tank has consistently low pH without issues since its in the basement, its swings that hurt things. Also, pH tends to shift throughout the day, so you could have measured it at different points making you think pH was drastically different.
Very bad idea! I'm sure somewhere on the bottle it tells you not to raise it that much. Nothing in saltwater that is good happens fast. I hope they pull through. My tank has consistently low pH without issues since its in the basement, its swings that hurt things. Also, pH tends to shift throughout the day, so you could have measured it at different points making you think pH was drastically different.
point taken. But no behavior has changed in the tank since the pH change; and from my perspective as a biochemist both pH 7.8 and 8.4 are relatively neutral so I doubt there will be severe consequences.

This still doesn't explain the behavior of my one fish prior to the pH adjustment...
the H+ concentration in a pH 7.8 environment is 4 times higher that an environment of pH 8.4. so you could say it was 4 times more acidic before you raised it (sounds like a pretty good swing to me) you have to remember that the pH scale is a logarithm so what seems to be a small change is a lot greater. also if you're pH is swinging then your alkalinity is likely to be low, get a KH test, from there you can convert to alkalinity, the buffer you're using is helping with the alk problem but it should be monitored to prevent a swing later.

the post is also right about the pH shifting throughout the day, that swing is safe because it slowly changes, even if the swing is from 7.8 to 8.4 although i usually see 8.2 to 8.4.
the H+ concentration in a pH 7.8 environment is 4 times higher that an environment of pH 8.4. so you could say it was 4 times more acidic before you raised it (sounds like a pretty good swing to me) you have to remember that the pH scale is a logarithm so what seems to be a small change is a lot greater. also if you're pH is swinging then your alkalinity is likely to be low, get a KH test, from there you can convert to alkalinity, the buffer you're using is helping with the alk problem but it should be monitored to prevent a swing later.

the post is also right about the pH shifting throughout the day, that swing is safe because it slowly changes, even if the swing is from 7.8 to 8.4 although i usually see 8.2 to 8.4.
This is great information about pH guys, but my fish was acting wierd BEFORE I changed pH and continued to act wierd afterward. They are independent variables...
What we're trying to say is it is all tied together. Parameters are an indicator that something is off in your water...you just noticed the signs after they started acting wierd. I agree, your alk is probably off. Are the other fish acting normally? Before the clown was acting weird when was the last time you tested? Last water change?
Just trying to help you with tecunique. I understand that it prolly has nothing to do with your fish acting weird. Maybe it has narcolepsy lol.

Sent from my Samsung Smartphone using Tapatalk. When I should be doing something more productive.
That is a big swing for pH in a stable tank, but not completely unheard of..... Likely either the test was wrong or faulty or possibly you might have an oxygen exchange issue. The water should not be near laminar flow, it should be somewhat turbulent with changing flow patterns. A clownfish should have to work a little to stay in one place, especially during daytime flows, can put a timer on and lower flows a night if you want, but the base line flow should never be near laminar.

But, what people have failed to state is clowns act like clowns, so this is not nessesarily odd behavior to act weird. Is there any sign of disease? Spots, slime, twitchy scratchy swimming or total lethargic behavior.
That is a big swing for pH in a stable tank, but not completely unheard of..... Likely either the test was wrong or faulty or possibly you might have an oxygen exchange issue. The water should not be near laminar flow, it should be somewhat turbulent with changing flow patterns. A clownfish should have to work a little to stay in one place, especially during daytime flows, can put a timer on and lower flows a night if you want, but the base line flow should never be near laminar.

But, what people have failed to state is clowns act like clowns, so this is not nessesarily odd behavior to act weird. Is there any sign of disease? Spots, slime, twitchy scratchy swimming or total lethargic behavior.
All other inhabitants are acting normal. Water is fairly turbid the closer you go to the surface and the clowns have to fight the current. Near the bottom, especially where this fish is laying it is fairly calm water.

It is a 41 gallon total volume setup. Friday I removed 5 gallons from the sump and dried out the center chamber. I used a dremil to remove more from one of the plexiglass baffels, cleaned everything up with RO water, then added 20 lbs. of new live sand. I added back new salt water and checked parameters and everything was perfect. That day I also added 2 balls of Chaeto to my new "fuge" center chamber. Some small pieces of chaeto have been drawn by the pump and are circulating in the display tank. Monday was the first day that we started to notice the clown acting wierd. It's only gotten worse. She is laying 1/4 way tipped on the sandbed breathing heavy this morning. Her color is not as bold as it usually is.

This morning I rinsed out the sponge at the inlet for my sump and also replaced the phospho-ban filter that is between the inlet sponge and protein skimmer. I don't measure phosphate levels and I thought perhaps that might be a culprit??

This is the spot where the clown is laying. It is a depression right at the entrance to the goby and pistol shrimp cave in the picture. They cover up the opening at night and the clown just lays on top of it breathing heavy???

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Cover the hole up with a rock, see if the behavior changes
Phosphate won't affect your fish, and if you had that much you'd have all sorts of algae.
Had the very same issue with one of my clowns.
She would go to her "safe spot" and lay on her side, id have to guess someone is bullying your clown, and the spot by the goby is her "safe spot".

Of course this is all a guess, from what I have seen my own clowns do in the past.

*edit- I am assuming its not a health or water issue....

Sent from my iPad using Braille.
I need suggestions for action.

The clown is still alive, but colors are fading and she's just laying on her side breathing heavy. The strangest part is that this has been going on for almost 3 days. I'd think she'd be dead by now...

What can I do to help her survive? Move her to the refuge (where there's currently only a hermit crab living)? All water chemistry is normal so what next?
yes, move her to the refug, also try and see if you can see anything in/by her gills.
You could also treat her with "ParaGuard".
Well the clown is gone. Literally. She was there one minute, then when I returned she was gone. I searched the entire tank with a flashlight (not removing live rock) and can't find her anywhere. I have a suspicion that the sea star pulled her dead corpse under his rock and is having dinner.

Thanks for all the advice on the proper way to adjust pH. It was very helpful.
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