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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

Not trying to come off harsh here, but a lot of store owners put a ton of work into their stores. Some people that work 8 hrs. a day have not the slightest idea of the stresses and dedication involved with running a business.

Almost every time I check a thread in here there's blah blah, they didn't have anything cool, blah blah, the tanks were dirty, all the fish had ich, blah blah, no selection, etc. This is offensive to people running these stores. This is a lot of work that those of you with your 9 to 5, that have never even put on a pair of gloves cannot even fathom.

No I don't own a store, I just get sick of everybody thinking people are supposed to throw out the red carpet for them when they walk in the store. Always somebody with the "I expected more", or the "Nothing Cool", or the "Too Expensive". I realize this part of the online forum is for these comments, but take it easy.

As far as stores having hard to keep type things, and things not for sale.

1. Sometimes what they ordered doesn't come in and they get substituted with what they did not order. They don't always see what they're getting either.
2. Sometimes they want a long term type tank in the store.
3. If you've ever set up one large tank, you know the kind of work it takes to set up 50 small/medium ones. Yes there are going to be things that are dirty, get over it.

The point of this is for some to take it easy on the bashing. You can certainly improve most any business, but remember it is a lot of work running a business. This was not meant at anybody specific here, just meant to cool off some people that like to be heard. Make the hobby fun like it was meant to be.

tony
 

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not to cause pick a fight or anything,, but the first thing I look at is the care of the tanks. If the tanks are dirty or I see dead fish in the tanks, I'm not buying anything that day. And if this happens enough times I don't go back.

However,, I agree about the complaining when a store doesn't have cool stuff.


And as far as the bashing threads go,, you can pretty much tell what the subject is about by the title and don't read it.... That's what I do.
 

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tempting

Its to tempting after reading the subject line to just ignore it.

I often feel slighted that a lfs that I trust and have done business with for years gets bashed by some baby that didn't get his/her bottle.
 

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Boy are you right. What was I thinking!

How stupid I must be to want to get the most for my money. If one store charges $74 for a bucket of reef crystals of course I should get it there instead of a place that charges $59. Despite the fact that both places paid the same thing for it.

And of course I should have no reservations about buying a sick fish. I can just go pick some more money off the tree in my backyard.

I should apply your concept to everything I buy, really. The next time I buy some rotten meat at the supermarket, I should just grin and bear it because well, they were trying hard. The next time the paint peels off my car a week after I buy it, just shrug my shoulders, after all running a business is hard.

I now realize I should be content paying a 300 to 400 percent markup on livestock, because at that rate it will take forever to recoup the vendors initial investment.

Plus, our oceans are in great shape, so when I see poorly harvested, housed or generally unethical species in a store, hey theres plenty more where that came from.

In fact its now obvious that these stores primary purpose is not to make money its... well I don't know.

And far be it for me to use a forum called vendor experiences for voicing my vendor experiences.

________________________________

In all sincerity, I don't think I've ever heard anything that was so proposterous on so many levels.

These are businesses, not non-profit orginizations. Their primary purpose, like it or not, is to make money.

Why did these people get into the business? Not to save the whales, better the hobby, provide a nice service, help people out, blah, blah, blah. Somewhere along the line they felt they could make a profit.

So I have no reservations of being critical when someone is practicing there business poorly, none. Nor do I feel that it's out of place to share that knowledge in an appropriate forum.

I understand that these "are people too", and they're trying hard. I'm sure some are very nice (after all that's good business) But they made the decision to try to profit from this hobby. I didn't. They've chosen to put themselves up for critisism from consumers. It's how business works.

If your sick of hearing about peoples vendors experiences, don't read them.
 

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No profit, no lfs or online vendors.

Your hobby would be for the most part dead.
As for letting people know where they can get cheap salt, go for it we all appreciate it.

As for the health of livestock, this stuff often comes in sick, if its sick don't buy it. If the meat smells funny don't buy it.

My beef is with the irresponsible comments, and there are many.
 

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Sorry I'll always call it as I see it. POsitive or negative. I have almost 1000g running at my place now and I keep it looking good and it isn;t my full time job.

I've rarely scene Pruess bashed (other than prices) or DBR. So some places sure due things right. :)

Is it that much to expect someone to do there job correct. How long could we keep out Jobs if we did them half ***ed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Fignewton-

perhaps you took this personally

Maybe you should check out points 1 through 3. Many stores are in strip malls, some rent higher than others. This is the main reason I don't have a LFS in Novi. You know how many fish you'd have to sell to cover $4K a month? So yes, Trop has a smaller investement compared to other stores. Point being made: Operating costs are higher at some places, and NO not all places buy their salt for the same price. There are also things called quantity discounts, which will also directly effect prices to you the consumer.

Would you like if all stores were run like Trop, then everybody would have 50 dollar salt buckets. Another key is Volume. Do you think Atlantis or DBR, a new store with a smaller customer base is really going to sell as many buckets as Trop. (No offense to DBR or Atlantis, both great stores IMO)

Some fish come in sick. The LFS has no control over this. They don't eye every single thing before it comes in. Livestock gets shipped in from all over the place, and sometimes substituted. If you buy 50 fish from Liveaquaria.com right now, I guarantee one or more will come with torn fins or ich.

Back to costs and employees. $8 an hour help is worth just that. Any high end reefer is typically at a point in life where they would not consider working at a fish store. I'd have to work a 40hr week at $8/hr just to run my reef for one month. When people walk into a store and get pissed that the kid behind the counter doesn't understand the direct relationship between alkalinity and calcium, it is because he's there with the outlook he's not going to be there long. If you pay the employees more then this raises your operating costs, which in turn raises costs on other things.

Some people are not going to ever be happy.

Yes, there are certainly better stores than others. My point was for people to take it easy with the bashing when things aren't exactly perfect.

People are always so quick to bash business with the attitude they don't do anything, yet the people doing the bashing usually do not have even a remotely plausible idea of running a business. These are also the people that never put up pics of their own personal tanks. If it was easy everybody would do it.
 

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no bashing here

all of us are just stating the obvious. everyone knows what is clean and dirty. lord knows that with my reef its a job in itself every day. but whos to blame for the dirty tanks and lack of knowledge. i sure am not. and most stores get credit for dead livestock the consumer doesnt, regardless of whos error it is. the consumer basically takes a bath on it. and yes there are some very reputable stores out there and i could name them off but there is a ladder to that statement too. and the vendors should know that there is something wrong with their staff and general overview f their tanks from an unbiased prospective. and they should know who is doing it right and why they are. most of the people would go back to a {bashed} store if they changed their ways but they dont they would rather rape a newbie for a 200-300 percent hobbie. so all of u that were mentioned in the other thread should maybe should take a gander and mabye care about your customer and the appearance of your store because we all are still spending money on the best and healthyist livestock that is fairly priced because lets face it, you cant make 300 percent profit if someone doesnt buy it and your system or lack there of will not prolong the inevidable so where did your profit just go. this is my rant hopefully im not cruisified.
 

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Anyone can do a job, but doing that job well is another story. Those who do it well need to be praised and supported, while those that don't need criticism in order to cause change.

It's easy for us to say what needs to be said on here, and hopefully those retailers that need improvement will actually try.

Not too much can be said of poor selection, as there are so many other factors involved.

Health, quality, and cleanliness all kind of go hand in hand to a certain extent and should be of priority. I agree with the idea that if stuff is always in poor health or the establishment is really dirty, then I don't usually go back, even if they do have cheap salt. I don't want to support a place that tries to sell crappy products or specimens.
 

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Hey, as someone who has to drive an hour to a decent store i appreciate the feedback,I would hate to drive an hour to find a bunch of fish belly up in the tanks because some weasel store owner got on here and posted what a great place it is.The bottom line is negative feedback is just as important as positive,it helps some of us know who is the cream of the crop and who is not.;)
 

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novi tony said:

Would you like if all stores were run like Trop, then everybody would have 50 dollar salt buckets. Another key is Volume. Do you think Atlantis or DBR, a new store with a smaller customer base is really going to sell as many buckets as Trop. (No offense to DBR or Atlantis, both great stores IMO)
It really is a catch22 here. I'm only gonna use the names you've already brought up because I think it's an interesting choice. All 3 are almost never bashed here but I'm only going to reference trop and atlantis because I have not been to DBR yet. ya the customer service may not be great at Trop, and yes the selection or prices might be a few dollars higher at Atlantis. It's completly understandable that Trop has a lot of selection and getting to the customer instantly is not always possible if their busy. And it's also understandable if Deans prices are a couple dollars higher than trop because he is a much smaller shop but he makes up for it in care and customer service. Whats not to be accepted is some of these shops you can constantly go into and they have none of the above. To post a thread complaining that people are voicing their experiences is unfair to the community. If people were making up lies thats one thing, but if all their doing is sharing their experience with the store didn't the store bring it apon themselves wether negative or positive?
 

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There are some places that do not take care of things. If you are running a buisness then run it!! do it right and take care of teh customers. I realize that things get substituted and you do not always get what you order.

That said it is not teh responsibility of the consumer to take this order glitch into account. Just like the Customer has choices with the LFS the patronize, the LFS has many choices for quality wholesalers of live stock. If you get consistantly bad or sick shipments swiTch to another vendor.

SOme places I have been to like to try to do it on the cheap. In this hobby that is suicide!~ PAy a liitle more for quality live stock and the problem is solved for you.

It is a service economy now plain and simple and those who provide that great customer service (DBR and PRuess particularly) will not be bashed and will be seen as the example or gold standard if you will in LFS to compare all others too.
 

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Confucious say --- When a LFS goes out of business its usually ran by a hobbyist that know's nothing about business, or a business person that new nothing about the hobby.
 

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I cant say that a I disagree with the fact that its upsetting to see dirty tanks, dead fish and poor selection. However, then dont piss and moan about high prices at places that are nice and clean, with great selection. You pay for a larger staff, better selection possibilities etc. This is a two way street, you cant have your cake and eat it too!
 

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I am glad to here the opinions of everyone on this board. This is an invaluble reference for anyone in the hobby (especialy the newbies). If I want to know if a not so LFS is any good I will look he first. I don't want to drive an hour and find out its a dump. Remember there are good points and bad points to every LFS. As a consumer it is your responsibility to weigh them and deciede for yourself if you will patronize them. As you should already know you shouldn't listen to just one persons opinion because I can list bad experiences from stores that others love.

blah blah blah

I'll stop rambling now
 

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I dont state my opinion about a store very often & if they are bad I just wont buy or waste my time with them.
I have never had a problem paying more for something if I like the store. I will do this with out a problem. I spend a lot of money on my hobby so I wont complain about a few more bucks .
If a store orders certain fish for customers even though I dont agree with them so be it.

When they order certain fish just to make a buck to the first customer that does not know any better, I dont have to like it but I dont have to spend my money there either. I really disagree with sharks & Wild Caught Sea Horses.
I just dont blame the LFS either. If a person walks in & buys with out knowing what they are buying they are just as much to blame as a LFS. And I understand that there are many new people to SW that rely on the advice of a LFS.

Kaye
 

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Confuscious makes it sound like it is a sin to make a profit. Fact is it doesn't matter who you are, you have to make a profit. By the way I know a place that sells buckets of reef crystals for 46.95. I can't mention who because I don't want to drag them into this.

Constructive criticism is welcomed by all. I appreciate knowing a little about each store. Secretly we all know what to expect at each store, but we travel hoping that we find some "gem" that noone else noticed.

It is the truly offensive often slanderous comments that I have a problem with. Don't try to say that this does not go on and that you have a right to express yourself. Show some self restraint and make sure that before you post, your info is not based on what you think but on what actually happened.

Sometimes corals really are that bright. Sometimes the fish gets sick in your tank and dies.
 
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