[Mike]

If you have not seen this film let me just say your missing somethig!

We saw it last night and it is compelling if nothing else.

The interveiws with Mrs Liscomb about the war and the young people dying over there are intense

 

[canisson]

For those of you more literature-friendly types, Playboy's interview this month is with Michael Moore, mostly discussion about this movie and the hype surrounding it. (and yes, I get it for the articles! ) It is a rather intersting piece to say the least.
So many people have said great things about this flick, curiousity is getting the best of me. I think maybe this long weekend, I may have to go see it, along with Spider-Man 2, of course!

 

[Planecrazy]

You actually READ playboy? <G>

 

[ofblong]

what the movie doesnt show is what really happens over there in iraq. it doesnt show that 90%(I am probably off on this figure but you get the idea) of the iraqi's are actually glad to see us. It makes bush look worse than he really is. It is a very poor portrayal of what things are really like. it only shows the bad and none of the good. There is more good going on than bad. Even the news makes it sound worse than it really is. John Kerry does not get my vote. He is a bigger liar and cheat than bush is. i know the movie isnt about just iraq but you know what im saying. To me Kerry is another al gore just waiting to take our guns and rights away from us. I dont want this country to end up like australia. Australia banned all guns and in so doing crime went up over 300%. Most of that is rapings and theft. sorry I about the rambling. I just wish the movie would have shown at least the good stuff happening(which there is alot) instead of nothing but the bad stuff. I guess the best way to describe the movie is that it is biased.

 

[Planecrazy]

Michael Moore BIASED? NO WAY! hehehehehe........I don't think that I've ever seen a more opinionated person than he. I haven't seen this movie, but I've seen a couple others of his. I don't always agree with everything, but he does make some good points. I especially liked his interview with Charleton Heston in Bowling for Columbine.
As for Bush, well, at the risk of alienating myslef, I don't see how ANYONE could screw up our country worse than him. We shouldn't have ever gone to Iraq. The war was based on incorrect and possibly fabricated intelligence. What a crock. The national debt is rising more quickly now than when even Regan was president. I don't necessarily like Kerry, but I'm not going to waste my vote on a 3rd party candidate either. May (insert religious figure here) help us all!

-Aaron

 

[Mike]

If you actually think about it.........

We did support the Iraquis in the 80's during the Iran / Iraq war because the Soviets supported Iran.

We did funnel money and arms to the resistance in afghanistan in the 80's when the Soviet union was occupying it. We financed Osama Bin Laden and Hussein!!

We did all of these things and now it has come back to kick us in the gluteus maximus

Its ironic that this is the truth but it is in fact the truth.

As for the president and the leaders of the United States:

I have always likened our system of government to that of Ancient Rome. Rome did at one time rule much of the CIVILIZED world. They used fear, oppression, and distraction to manage the people. They had the colliseum, we have Ford Field and JLA. It's sad that propaganda can be so cripling to a people. We were led to believe one thing and the truth is it was not all true.

I cannot believe that the people of any nation would be happy to see a foriegn army occupying their land, conducting raids in the middle of the night, and driving around in tanks with M60's and soldiers with M16's patroling the streets.

The movie was a little "one sided" but so was the information we were given regarding the catalyst to invade Iraq in the first place. Any Weapons of Mass Distruction that Iraq had, or may of had were long gone before we got there.

Where should we focus our attention?

North Korea would be a start. Radical nation, no economy, but rich in uranium and an active weapons program? Nah, lets leave alone and wait for Osama to get there and Fund a rocket program and help out some displaced former soviet, unemployed nuclear scientist!

Just my Opinion as a former member of the United States Army. Happily Honorably Discharged.

 

[RedWinger]

Wouldn't waste my time or money.

F that fat pri*k.

 

[Fignewton]

We had him (Michael Moore) on our show on Friday, an interesting interview.

Listen here

http://images.radcity.net/5409/715740.rm

http://images.radcity.net/5409/715741.rm

Theres also a counter-documentary coming out called Michael Moore Hates America by Michael Wilson.

 

[Mike]

that will be interesting to I bet!

 

[daveNandi]

what the movie doesnt show is what really happens over there in iraq. it doesnt show that 90%(I am probably off on this figure but you get the idea) of the iraqi's are actually glad to see us.

Where did you hear that, Fox News?

It makes bush look worse than he really is.

I question whether that is possible

It is a very poor portrayal of what things are really like. it only shows the bad and none of the good. There is more good going on than bad. Even the news makes it sound worse than it really is.

It may be one sided, showing only the bad, but that doesn't make the wrong's right. Enron did some things right, so did the Soviet Union under communism, so does Cuba today. The fact that Cuba has the best third world health care in Latin America doesn't make their evil acceptable.

John Kerry does not get my vote. He is a bigger liar and cheat than bush is.

At least you admit Bush is a liar and a cheat.

i know the movie isnt about just iraq but you know what im saying.

The movie is pretty much just about Iraq and 9/11

To me Kerry is another al gore just waiting to take our guns and rights away from us.

That sounds like paranoia. We all know that when nuclear weapons are outlawed only outlaws will have them. I'm building a WMD in my basement cause its my constitutional right.
To further point out how biased or delusional you are, Bush used 9/11 to take away many of our rights with the patriot act. The supreme court just had to tell him that he can't call me an enemy combatant and hold me forever without trial. If you're worried about losing rights, worry about Republicans, cause soon we'll all pray to Jesus and won't be allowed abortions.

I dont want this country to end up like australia. Australia banned all guns and in so doing crime went up over 300%. Most of that is rapings and theft.

What you are leaving out is how much lower than ours their crime rate is even after a 300% increase that may be from other causes, but I won't argue that here.

sorry I about the rambling. I just wish the movie would have shown at least the good stuff happening(which there is alot) instead of nothing but the bad stuff. I guess the best way to describe the movie is that it is biased.

I just wish it hadn't left out the tremendous damage to the nation's future from a tax cut that went mostly to the wealthy, sadling us with huge deficits, as far as the eye can see... The lies about social security...

 

[ofblong]

Where did you hear that, Fox News?
NO from actual solderies who have been there not some news show that shows only partial truths. thats why I dont watch the news.

At least you admit Bush is a liar and a cheat. yes so has every other president we have had.

That sounds like paranoia. We all know that when nuclear weapons are outlawed only outlaws will have them. I'm building a WMD in my basement cause its my constitutional right. Bush used 9/11 to take away many of our rights with the patriot act. The supreme court just had to tell him that he can't call me an enemy combatant and hold me forever without trial.

why do you think china hasnt tried to invade us again? Because we have lots of fire power even amoung the civilian population. In no way am I paranoid but I would like to be able to defend myself in a time of emergency. There is no way I will beat someone that has a gun if all I have is a knife.

What you are leaving out is how much lower their crime rate is even after a 300% increase that may be from other causes.
your rational doesnt make sense. how can they have a lower crime rate yet the crime rate has increased 300%? yes shootings have been lowered but everything else like rapings have gone up. hmm do I want the women around me to fear for their life they might get raped or let them have a gun to shoot(not necessarily kill) an attacker. I think id rather they had a gun to fend themselves. not saying its just women getting raped as that isnt true as men do also but not as to a degree as women do.

I just wish it hadn't left out the tremendous damage to the nation's future from a tax cut that went mostly to the wealthy, sadling us with huge deficits, as far as the eye can see... The lies about social security... cant say much bout ss as I probably wont have it when im old enough to claim it. thus my reasoning for putting $$$ in other places of interest.Also the wealthy may have gotten a tax cut but they still pay a heck of alot more in taxes than you could even imagine. I wish I had one years worth of taxes some of the rich pay in every year. hmm I pay 15% in taxes yet my father-in-law pays 33% in taxes. lets see who pays more?

 

[Mike]

ok,

confused here

I was not aware that china had planned an invasion of the continental united states.

Japan had ambitions in WWII but we were sorta allied with china because japan had invaded them.

As for WMD or Personal WMD (guns) we could fight all day!!

As for Bush and the Boys in D.C: Never trust a revenuer or a politician because they are both full of one thing: Manuer!!

Freedom is the foundation of our society but not everyone else's. However it is our Manifest Destiny to Preach "our country tis of thee sweet land of liberty" but we are not fighting and dying to free ourselves, our leaders and their children are not taking a personal part in the blood shed like George and fella's did in the Revolutionary War to free of from TAxation without representation (now they rob us with representation) and give us our freedom of religion (use it against us to keep us at odds), which is something we all ironically fight about still.

I don't like that public Nativity!!
Hey, put out that Menorah!!
If your an american take off that [email protected][email protected]

Just silly things we still do...

I believe that one day (soon) another super power will raise up it's mighty head and look us in the eye, right before they put us in our place. China is a formidable force and have the same toys that wedo, and more of them!! With a million plus army.....well you can fill in the rest. Rome fell you know...

and as for taxes: I am in the higher end of that also. I always pay every year in addition to what I pay each week. Even with 14000+ as an interest deduction on my house and itemizing like crazy, saving every receipt that can be used as a professional expense...... I can count on 2K plus in additional payments. I'm not wealthy, just doing ok by popular standards.

America was built on the backs of the working class. I do not feel the least bit of sorrow for the wealthy because the great divide between them and us gets a little wider, a little deeper, and harder to close each day.

If you have 15 million and earn 4.5 million in interest from investmestments and pay 33% of that 4.5 million in taxes assuming its your only source of income.... you still have 3.015 Million left. I don't know but I could make it fine on that!!

Now on the other hand if your me: you earn with your spouse (masrriage penalty lesson) a combined income of 112000 (as an example) and you pay the 23% that leaves you with 86240 a lot less than that 3 million.

Now I know I forgot to take standardized deduction and line item deduction.... But this is used as a thought provoking measure and nothing more.

remeber folks... The rich have tax shelters and foundations and donations and ways around capital gain taxes (thanks to you W ) and so on and so on......

I know we little people get around the capital gain tax too.. but theres a big difference in the amount of gain between us and them so it benefits them......

 

[RedWinger]

Remember folks, ALL politicians suck and if you think they give a crap about you, you are misinformed.

All they care about is being in charge. But for my money, as long as Republicans tout taxcuts, I will always vote (R).

Even if tax cuts went by the wayside, in conservative idealogy, I can't imagine being on the same team with the likes of pelosi, kennedy, moore, babs, penn, the clintoons, krugman, molly ivins, etc ... The vitriol that comes out of these people mouths is appalling.

 

[Rook]

I agree, Bush and Kerry are virtual twins. They both come from similar backgrounds and have similar ideas. The only difference is the people who are paying their bills and supporting them. At least Bush will take a stance on an issue whereas Kerry waffles. That, IMO will be Kerry's downfall. If Kerry would, and did take a solid stance from the beginning I would bet he would win.

Regarding taxes, those of you who think that the tax cuts only favored the rich and harmed the poor, must know little more than political soundbites about the tax system. The poor pay very little, if anything in taxes, and have tremendous support for the asking in medicare, social security, welfare, etc, etc, etc. Not that I don't think it is good that the country supports the poor, but you can't complain just because others make more money than you do when you offer little money back to support the country.

Regarding F. 911, didn't they pull the title "documentary" from the film due to too many inaccuracies? Go to any of the major news websites including CNN, Fox, MSNBC whereever, and they all have stories about the many many inaccuracies and blatent misleading propaganda in the movie. Remember that it is a movie with one goal. Make Moore rich. Also remember that Moore is one of those rich elitist that you appear to despise. Also, while on the news websites, read all the quotes Moore has made recently bad mouthing Americans, not just Bush but all of us. It surprises me that in a time when the T.V. is full of "reality" t.v. shows that people cannot tell when the program is twisting the truth and editing like crazy to make the viewers believe something other than the truth. Unless you all believe those reality t.v. shows as well.

I cannot believe anyone would compare the U.S. to Rome. Just because we have power does not make us a tyrant country traveling the world to destroy and expand our empire while taking slaves and wiping out civilizations. That is quite a leap.

I find it funny that people complain that Bush did not act fast on uncertain and speculative information to attempt to prevent 9-11, but also complain that he acted too fast against Iraq on similar uncertain and speculative information to attempt to prevent another possible dissaster. Those who claim that Bush was in some type of compiracy and allowed 9-11 to happen so he could pass the patriot act, come on. You have to be kidding. You people fall prey to too many biased news stories and politician soundbites.

Lastly, regarding the debt, remember that the backbone of the republic party is a small U.S. government and more power in the State Government. Democrates are all for a big powerful central government. Therefore, it is my theory that Bush, as well as with Regan, is trying to continue to increase government spending to the point where it is a major problem and the only way out is to drastically reduce the size of the government. It is a tactic that has been tried before. Although I believe in the goal I am not sure this is the best way to go about it. But this is just my theory.

 

[Mike]

I cant believe people do not see the similarities with rome...

They were not all "bad" for the time period. they believed themselves "right" in civilzing the world that they knew and expanding the ideology of rome with the methjods common to the time. to not see the similarities is in my mind to not see that history has this odd way of repeating itself.

as for the "poor" and taxes....

what do you say. taxes like all other things in life are what I like to call relative. Releative to the fact that if you do not have an income or do not have an income that meets the guidlines to be taxed then how can one pay?

However my point is that the middle class gets squuezed like a turnip all the time. ask any small buisness owner and I am sure we will get a book back on the hoops they jump through just to stay alive.

ANd I agree that their is no such thing as a good politician, there was not in Egyptian times, Roman times, Mid Evil times, and modern times. For the very foundation of the political system in concession and who has the most power. I will concede to this but you have to give me this in return. Whether its for the greater good or not.

And for the people that call this a democracy.... It's not! it's a republic. Just ask all the people that voted for gore! popular votes mean little, the founding fathers set up the electoral college because it was there belief that the "people" were not educated enough to make good decisions. Times do change and the costitution has been amended for this, but the electoral college has yet to be changed.

Rome is my other hobby, passion if you will. I can see the similarities. They were a bloody people (but consider the time) that wared with "rogue" nations to spread the empire. Did the settler not do the same? are we not trying to do the same? these are rhetorical not to be answered only to be pondered.

the other thing we are great at is euphamism!!

its not PTSD it's CSD now and in world war two we called it shell shock!! I call it was it is: Mortal Fear of Death in a cruel, bloody, mamming manner by the hands of a sworn enemy that I do not understand!!

To Quote MAlcome X, "how can I hate that which I do not understand"

 

[Rook]

However my point is that the middle class gets squuezed like a turnip all the time. ask any small buisness owner and I am sure we will get a book back on the hoops they jump through just to stay alive.

I absolutely agree, 100%. However, I do not believe the middle class is squeezed because of the rich, but because of the poor. The rich are already taxed quite highly, and you cannot simply blam them for all the money problems in the world simply because they have money and others do not. The poor are not taxed at all. Government, especially democrates but both parties in general like to give and give and give to the poor, either by tax cuts, increased benefits whatever. But us middle class see little if any of those tax cuts or benefits and after all the taxes, most of which goes to support the poor, the middle class is not much better off than the poor.

Yeah it would be great if we could take 75% of all the money from the rich, but the middle class would see little of that, the poor would get it. And, is that fair? Is it fair that someone made a good life for themself and the government decided that that money would be better spent on the poor?

I understand your position on Rome and I see you pointed out similarities, I just don't view the U.S. as expanding their empire, but rather trying to protect the unprotected and prevent the spread of tyrants. Sure the U.S. and many other large countries have acted like Rome in earlier days of exploration, but not so much today. Hopefully we have grown better than that by now.

And for the people that call this a democracy.... It's not! it's a republic.

I get complaints all the time for stating that very thing. Most people do not understand this, and when you try and explain it to them, do not want to believe it. A country this size simply could not be a democracy. Particularly with so few who actually vote, and even fewer who actually make educated votes as opposed to simply voting republican or democratic or voting based on soundbite advertising or for recognizable last names. It is definately too bad, but this is probably the only way our system could work and retain any viability.

 

[Mike]

I do not beleive that we will ever LEAVE Iraq. we would be foolish to go anywhere!! we may let them "govern" themselves and elect officials because it serves up but to pull out of there is not an option! the pentagon, the white house, even congress knows this. you better believe the military knows this!

Bush knew what he was doing! he knew the potential benefits of an invasion or a liberation (euphamism) of Iraq.

Get out a map when you have time. TAke a long hard look at it! and then you will see the reason it is foolish to vacate this territory.

not to mention the second largest oil reserve on planet earth.

Just like many others in power this administration used propaganda and fear to motivate a people to go to war. it's not right to lie and then lie about lying. We lambasted Clinton for it! congress and kenneth star wanted him impeached for personal indiscressions and then pergury.

We are talking about a president and an administration that mislead the people to support a conflict in a far away land called Iraq. We are talking about speculation, not proof that these WMD or the capabilities to aquire and construct WMD existed.

HAving been a member of the army I can tell you this is any soldiers worst fear. Making funeral arrangements prior to deployment because you may never come home. writing your last will and testament and kissing your wife and family god-bye for what may be the last time. enduring the psychological torture of knowing that you may be killed, captured, tortured and then killed is unthinkable. but they do it, they deploy, they fight, they die, loved one's grieve.....

for what? to what end? so that we can say we "freed iraq from the oppression of sadaam" if the iraqi's wanted freedom why did they not do what we did in the revolutionary war? freedom taste best when the people who are free desire it enough to fight for it. they are fighting us though while we fight to "save" them from themselves.

 

[Mike]

in terms of taxes and the "poor". I think in this way. Some people make a bed and they should sleep in it. others have factors beyond their control and need help to crawl out of a bed that was made for them. poverty is a form of oppression and by keeping people poor you limit their access to higher education not by limiting funds but rather by breaking their spirit. poverty is a tool, a tool that is used often. by making the middle class responsible for the poor you foster and breed resentment towrds them and further enhance the socail stigma of poverty, which in turn keeps the spirit of the poor broken.

to devide a people on economic basis is more powerful than the other methods. because money is power in america. if you have it you have some control if you do not then you have no voice.

the poor are the silent and forgotten voices of america.

only a select few can be rich but like a pyramid the bottom has to be larger to support that select few on top. the rich are rich on the backs of the poor and the middle class bears the weight in between.

 

[ofblong]

in terms of taxes and the "poor". I think in this way. Some people make a bed and they should sleep in it. others have factors beyond their control and need help to crawl out of a bed that was made for them. poverty is a form of oppression and by keeping people poor you limit their access to higher education not by limiting funds but rather by breaking their spirit. poverty is a tool, a tool that is used often. by making the middle class responsible for the poor you foster and breed resentment towrds them and further enhance the socail stigma of poverty, which in turn keeps the spirit of the poor broken.

to devide a people on economic basis is more powerful than the other methods. because money is power in america. if you have it you have some control if you do not then you have no voice.

the poor are the silent and forgotten voices of america.

only a select few can be rich but like a pyramid the bottom has to be larger to support that select few on top. the rich are rich on the backs of the poor and the middle class bears the weight in between.

Well I look at it this way. I grew up in a shack until I was around 12 years old when I was taken away and put into foster care. My real parents still live in a shack. I on the other hand had a middle class family take me in and give me proper care. you know a roof food etc etc. I now have a house kids wife car etc. dunno what im trying to say just putting that out there =].

as for china well they were bad mouthing us and threatening us quite a bit a year or so ago before we went after osama bin laden. they were threatening another pearl harbor. At least thats what the news said =]. its one of those things that you see a newspaper and read a couple stories out of it like once a month.

 

[Mike]

I know that north Korea was threatening when we aked the to stop their weapon program. I do recall something now that you mention it about bad relations with China. We want them to be happy!!