[Adam101]

OK about 2 days ago I come down and My tank looks like pea soup so I was quite surprised so I slaped in some carbon and within a few hrs it was gone, One thing was the Grape Caulerpa lost all of its color so I thought it maybe went" sexual" and 2 days later( I have been gone so much I havent paid much attention the plant is 3/4 gone. What happened? Is it that it just died? everything else is OK so Im at a loss........any Ideas

 

[DLBerlin]

Thats what happens when it goes sexual.
If its in a fuge then I suggest using chaeto instead
it doesnt do that
not too good for a tank though cause it floats

 

[Adam101]

Hey Berlin thanks for the Info, So Do I now expect to see lil ones growing everywhere? it happened all of a sudden, well well I guess the " remains" can be removed It was in the main tank cause It just started growing and I liked it so I let it have fun. I hope it had a cigarette afterwards LOL thanks for any further Insite.

 

[scleractinian]

Careful, if this happens with enough Caulerpa it can consume all of the oxygen in the tank and kill fish. Ask me how I know...

 

[sean]

When this happens the algae goes asexual, i dont think it reproduces to my knowledge just totally dies off, all species are known to do this except chaeto, they usually do this when the stem reaches more than 12" in length, so you have to keep up with your pruning, i would check those phosphates though. Any type of algae feeds off a of phosphates, and if they die they release it all back into your tank. I just realized back in the day when my caulerpa went asexual, my hair algae growth greatly increased.

 

[Tide2Water]

WHOA!!!........SLOW THAT PONY DOWN

Umm I think some of us are forgetting the "basics" of plant anatomy, physiology and biology. Any organism that is autotrophic (makes it's own food) respirates mainly when the lights go out. (Yes I said respirates (like you and I)) That is why your gardens (and lawns) always seem to grow alot at night it is because this is the time god set them up to do this. When any animal respirates they take in oxygen (in this case in the form of DO) and "breathe" out CO2. ANY PLANT DOES THIS infact EVERY plant does this. they take CO2 in and release O2 during the day (the Krebs cycle) and at night they take in O2 and release CO2 although the CO2 released at night is not near what was taken in during the day it could be enough to cause DURASTIC PH changes and fluxuate other water perameters as well. When the "sun" gets turned back on by your timer it starts back into it's "usual" cycle and releases O2 and your PH spikes again! If a plant is asexual that just means that it can reproduce all by itself. sometimes that means it does or can reproduce from cutings or fragments of the "mother plant". or that it can pollinate it's own "flower". Also I do not beleive Caulerpa is an algae or is it? (i could be wrong on this one it wouldn't be the first time !)my Caulerpa looses it's color every night which means that the chlorophyl is dissmantled everynight almost and then by noon it has all of it's color back! wow talk about hard work for the plant!

Just my .02

Tide

 

[Adam101]

OK Update and THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE INPUT....................Well the plant was all but disloged from its rock so I pulled off most of it( the remainder that was left) and there are a few sprigs here and there and if they regrow fine if not thats ok too I did a Phosphate test and got a ZERO reading so that was good, Even so I decided to do a major cleanup of the tank and vaccumed the gravel etc did prob a 30% water change and so far everythings opened up again so all Is good( fingers crossed) the tank has never looked better LOL I do have another algae growing and will take a Picture of that later today cause I really cant Identify it or if any of you know a marine aquarium algae/plant site that would be cool too.

 

[scleractinian]

Re: WHOA!!!........SLOW THAT PONY DOWN

Umm I think some of us are forgetting the "basics" of plant anatomy, physiology and biology. Any organism that is autotrophic (makes it's own food) respirates mainly when the lights go out. (Yes I said respirates (like you and I)) That is why your gardens (and lawns) always seem to grow alot at night it is because this is the time god set them up to do this. When any animal respirates they take in oxygen (in this case in the form of DO) and "breathe" out CO2. ANY PLANT DOES THIS infact EVERY plant does this. they take CO2 in and release O2 during the day (the Krebs cycle) and at night they take in O2 and release CO2 although the CO2 released at night is not near what was taken in during the day it could be enough to cause DURASTIC PH changes and fluxuate other water perameters as well. When the "sun" gets turned back on by your timer it starts back into it's "usual" cycle and releases O2 and your PH spikes again! If a plant is asexual that just means that it can reproduce all by itself. sometimes that means it does or can reproduce from cutings or fragments of the "mother plant". or that it can pollinate it's own "flower". Also I do not beleive Caulerpa is an algae or is it? (i could be wrong on this one it wouldn't be the first time !)my Caulerpa looses it's color every night which means that the chlorophyl is dissmantled everynight almost and then by noon it has all of it's color back! wow talk about hard work for the plant!

Just my .02

Tide

I think that that was AT LEAST $.04!

Caulerpa is an alga.

When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize and respirate.

When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2.

All of the O2 that was previously relatively available to the system is concentrated (and made relatively unavailable) in the spores.

Photosynthesis/respiration (of the Caulerpa) aren't involved once it decides to melt down.

Didn't forget the "basics".

 

[DLBerlin]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/nftt/index.htm
Good Reefkepping.com article on algea going sexual

 

[scleractinian]

Oh... some also theorize that anti-grazing and alleopathic compounds produced by Caulerpa are also major contributors to the bad things that happen in tanks w/ lotsa the stuff when it goes sexual.

This thoery is supported by the fact that carbon use seems to help reduce fish mortality in these events (due to absortion of the toxins)... obviously, aeration is the only way to help w/ depressed O2 (carbon/filtration won't help)...

My humble $.02.

 

[Mike]

I agree that it went sexual on you!!

I would also suggest as others have using the chaetamorpha sp? algea. Its a wonderful algea to feed tangs with, they suck it down (at least mine did) and it was always crawling with pods.

 

[Adam101]

HEy all thanks for the Input yea I will irradicate it I had " feather" agae Forgive me for not remembering its real name But It just didnt take and just died out in my tank I will try something new again, Also I have attached a few pictures of a algae thats grwoing on 2 rocks and some Green tube structures that grow all over My clam and a few other small rocks. Hopefully the pictures are good enough for someone to decypher. Heck with all the questions you would think I hadent been in saltwater for hummm 12 years now or so. tho untill last year I never did anything but fish anenomies and featherdusters Now Im doing more coral inverts etc. Anyway here are the pics.

 

[Adam101]

# 2, anyone kno why I get a error saying max sixe is 320 x 320? the pictures are at 92 dpi and wayyyyyyyyy less then 71,00+ bytes this is the first time this has happened for me thats why My pics are tinyyyyyyyy

 

[Tide2Water]

ummmm... Question?!

scleractinian- you said that

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize and respirate."

Yes I do agree when it is photosnthesizing it is also respirating. But I IMMENSLY disagree in the first part of that sentance

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesiz"

Umm...No. So your telling me if we took any green plant and put in it a PITCH DARK; I mean a NO light situation that it would be photo synthesizing? Just becasue a plant is green doesn't mean it's photosynthesizing it just means it has chlorophyl!

Also

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2."

A Warning Sign of Impending Caulerpa Sporulation

Based on what Gene published on his website I am able to draw the conclusion that the "pea soup" that has been noted was not a rotting mass of dissmembered plant but mearly spores (not shure of the correct word as I feel gametes is not correct as I am unshure of whether there are male and female plants ) of his caulerpa and that his "mother/father" plant is (or was depending on what he did with it) very much alive but that it had only lost it's color due to the fact that it had broken down its chlorophl in order to either produce the spores or in order to recover from this huge energy expendature.

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates..."

No it release's spermatophores or gametes (one or the other unshure of which)

And I agree with you that:

"... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2. "

But...

"Photosynthesis/respiration (of the Caulerpa) aren't involved once it decides to melt down."

As long as the plant is alive one or the other MUST be taking place for anything to take place as plants nor humans have anyway to store ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate)

In my previous statement I was mearly stating the facts for easily the majority if not all organisms in the domain "Plantae"(did i spell that right?)

I didn't

Tide

 

[scleractinian]

Re: ummmm... Question?!

Wasn't trying to be gumpy...

scleractinian- you said that

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize and respirate."

Yes I do agree when it is photosnthesizing it is also respirating. But I IMMENSLY disagree in the first part of that sentance

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesiz"

Umm...No. So your telling me if we took any green plant and put in it a PITCH DARK; I mean a NO light situation that it would be photo synthesizing? Just becasue a plant is green doesn't mean it's photosynthesizing it just means it has chlorophyl!

[Nope, didn't say it would be in the dark... not sure how you inferred that. I was simply saying that the phenomenon that was the topic of the thread wan't related to photosynthesis, which you thoroughly explained in your post... ]

Also

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2."

A Warning Sign of Impending Caulerpa Sporulation

Based on what Gene published on his website I am able to draw the conclusion that the "pea soup" that has been noted was not a rotting mass of dissmembered plant but mearly spores (not shure of the correct word as I feel gametes is not correct as I am unshure of whether there are male and female plants ) of his caulerpa and that his "mother/father" plant is (or was depending on what he did with it) very much alive but that it had only lost it's color due to the fact that it had broken down its chlorophl in order to either produce the spores or in order to recover from this huge energy expendature.

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates..."

No it release's spermatophores or gametes (one or the other unshure of which)

[My turn to strongly disagree. The plant (an algae might be in Plantae, depending on your school of though, or it might not be, many now consider it in Protoctista) doesn't magically convert all of its mass into spores. Once they have "gone sexual", and sporulated, they, IME, turn to goo and die, disintegrate, and feed bacteria, this is just my experience, others may have seen sporulation without and then have the Caulerpa recover and live happily ever after... sporulation is often a response to severe disturbance... the algae is injured or disrupted enough that it allocates most of its energy to the production of spores, which can better survive adverse environmental conditions... it's a "last gasp" attempt to preserve its DNA. It's usual method of reproduction is asexual, remember... sporulation isn't a routine event in the life history of the stuff. ]

And I agree with you that:

"... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2. "

But...

"Photosynthesis/respiration (of the Caulerpa) aren't involved once it decides to melt down."

As long as the plant is alive one or the other MUST be taking place for anything to take place as plants nor humans have anyway to store ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate)

[OK, but the "melt down" process I mentioned often happens over only a few hours, and most notice it has started by observing that stuff isn't green, but transparent (you note the association of chlorophyll and photsynthesis above... if it isn't green anymore, it's likely not photosynthesizing). It's already begun to decompose, and isn't really a functioning organism anymore. That's why no photosynthesis.]

In my previous statement I was mearly stating the facts for easily the majority if not all organisms in the domain "Plantae"(did i spell that right?)

[Plantae's spelled right, but I'm not familiar with it as a domain, but rather a kingdom... the domain would probably be Eukarya, kindom Protoctista]

I didn't

Tide

 

[scleractinian]

And here's a quote from the site you referenced:

"My pictures serve as a warning to pay attention to your Caulerpa and if something similar to what I've seen is found, be sure to act quickly. I would suggest removing all the alga, as that individual or "bunch" will go sexual once the gametangia are formed, no matter what one does. Once the nuclei begin subdividing and form gametangia, the thallus, or main body of the alga will release spores and die regardless of what is done."

Or... goes sexual (and stops photosynthesizing), dies (turns to goo), and feeds the bacteria (which respirate, and may crash the DO in your tank).

That's all I meant. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

 

[Tide2Water]

Re: Re: ummmm... Question?!

Wasn't trying to be gumpy...
>I know I just like to debate.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tide2Water

scleractinian- you said that

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize and respirate."

Yes I do agree when it is photosnthesizing it is also respirating. But I IMMENSLY disagree in the first part of that sentance

"When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize"

Umm...No. So your telling me if we took any green plant and put in it a PITCH DARK; I mean a NO light situation that it would be photo synthesizing? Just becasue a plant is green doesn't mean it's photosynthesizing it just means it has chlorophyl!

[Nope, didn't say it would be in the dark... not sure how you inferred that. I was simply saying that the phenomenon that was the topic of the thread wan't related to photosynthesis, which you thoroughly explained in your post... ]

>It came from your statement "When it's just sitting there being green it does photosynthesize"because isn't it still green even though it's in the dark? Everything a plant does is somehow related to photosnythesis and the plants strive to produce more energy!

Also

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2."

A Warning Sign of Impending Caulerpa Sporulation

Based on what Gene published on his website I am able to draw the conclusion that the "pea soup" that has been noted was not a rotting mass of dissmembered plant but mearly spores (not shure of the correct word as I feel gametes is not correct as I am unshure of whether there are male and female plants ) of his caulerpa and that his "mother/father" plant is (or was depending on what he did with it) very much alive but that it had only lost it's color due to the fact that it had broken down its chlorophl in order to either produce the spores or in order to recover from this huge energy expendature.

"When it "goes sexual" (probably sporulation) it basically disintegrates..."

No it release's spermatophores or gametes (one or the other unshure of which)

[My turn to strongly disagree. The plant (an algae might be in Plantae, depending on your school of though, or it might not be, many now consider it in Protoctista) doesn't magically convert all of its mass into spores. Once they have "gone sexual", and sporulated, they, IME, turn to goo and die, disintegrate, and feed bacteria, this is just my experience, others may have seen sporulation without and then have the Caulerpa recover and live happily ever after... sporulation is often a response to severe disturbance... the algae is injured or disrupted enough that it allocates most of its energy to the production of spores, which can better survive adverse environmental conditions... it's a "last gasp" attempt to preserve its DNA. It's usual method of reproduction is asexual, remember... sporulation isn't a routine event in the life history of the stuff. ]

>Plantae it's a recent addition to the old seven levels of taxonomy it now goes Domain, Kindom, Phlum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species !

And I agree with you that:

"... rotting algae feeds bacteria, which respirate, and deplete O2. "

But...

"Photosynthesis/respiration (of the Caulerpa) aren't involved once it decides to melt down."

As long as the plant is alive one or the other MUST be taking place for anything to take place as plants nor humans have anyway to store ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate)

[OK, but the "melt down" process I mentioned often happens over only a few hours, and most notice it has started by observing that stuff isn't green, but transparent (you note the association of chlorophyll and photsynthesis above... if it isn't green anymore, it's likely not photosynthesizing). It's already begun to decompose, and isn't really a functioning organism anymore. That's why no photosynthesis.]

>Oh, didn't know that. I DEFINATLY AGREE!!!

In my previous statement I was mearly stating the facts for easily the majority if not all organisms in the domain "Plantae"(did i spell that right?)

[Plantae's spelled right, but I'm not familiar with it as a domain, but rather a kingdom... the domain would probably be Eukarya, kindom Protoctista]

I didn't

Tide
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tide

 

[Adam101]

Well well I gues I started a debate LOL No seriously tho I took Botany last semester and let me say It was hell Im a Bio major But for some reason that encompases Botany!!!!!!!!!!!!! well I took the class passed it and will never look back you can only hear about the apical meristem etc for so long before you just say Bahhhhhh It grows I fertilize it it looks nice tho on my last post I did post some other algae/plant pictures some that are a stand alone plant and the others that look kinda like tubes on my clam and some rocks.

 

[scleractinian]

I didn't mean to imply (though I'm still not sure how I might have) that organisms photosynthesize (for very long) in the dark. I'm sorry if I confused anyone... again, I was just pointing out that the phenomenon referred to in the title of this post is NOT related to photosynthesis.

Please see my notes on the taxonomy of Caulerpa in my prior post, I do realize that Plantae is a taxon, just not that it was a domain (I would place Caulerpa , in domain Eukarya , kingdom Protoctista ).

 

[scleractinian]

Yeah... once upon a time I was interested (started a Master's) in algal ecology (specifically succession in estuarine areas and potential influences on the geomorphology of Florida) ... to be an ecologist, you have to be a bit of a taxonomist... to be a taxonomist, you have to like to argue.