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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok. I am going to be getting my hands on a 75g in a little over a week and I'm transferring everything from my 55 to it. What does everyone think the best way to do that is? Should I just set it up without lights and let it cycle etc etc its coming as a pre established system so should I do that or try andtransfer everyone from my 55 all at once and hope for the best or what I'm transferring over LR 2 fish a starfish and a peppermint shrimp and a handful of snails and hermits should I'm just worried I might get a cycle is that a valid worry? Or what
 

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me personally i would set up the new tank with extra rock and everything, let is cycle, because i would assume that it would, then transfer you old LR and everything over.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Should just use the LR to let it cycle or should I toss in some cycling bacteria stuff or a hermit or somehing
 

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A hermit isn't going to cycle a tank - live animals should never be used to cycle a tank as cycles are tough on livestock. Use live rock like you did for your other tanks. Is the 75 an established tank or the 55? If its the 55, you'll need more lived rock, so get some live rock, let it cycle, then move over the live rock from the 55. Let it settle and re-check paramters. Once evrything is ok, you can transfer livestock, but it will all need to be acclimated - the starfish especially will need to be drip acclimated for over an hour.
 

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Don't out anything in it until it cycle and no you don't need lights to cycle. Also I would buy new sand but that's just my opinion
 

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If the tank is an established tank as you mentioned. You will not need to put anything in to start a cycle. I would however, dose MB7 daily. I would also, not use the substrate from that tank. I would purchase new live sand or agronite to save some money as the sand will become live in time. Set it up and let it run its course. If you can leave both tanks up for a couple weeks, do that. You will see a small cycle with setting this new tank up.
 

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[edited] Ok I have no problem having them both set up for a few weeks and there both established systems but the 75 is being emptied because she is getting a cube so if I get rid of the sand it's no longer established lol its just a empty tank lol so yeah if If I get new sand that's dead It will eventually be ife from my rock?
 

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Hi, I few months ago, I transferred everything from my 90 to the 120 and had virtually no cycle, but I keep lights very low house for the first couple of weeks. Keep a good flow in tank will help. I used all new RODI water and salt, none of the old water was transferred, just the sand and live rocks, I also had all of my snails and hermits along with fish, everyone was happy.
 

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Ok I have no problem having them both set up for a few weeks and there both established systems but the 75 is being emptied because she is getting a cube so if I get rid of the sand it's no longer established lol its just a empty tank lol so yeah if If I get new sand that's dead It will eventually be ife from my rock?
Just because you are replacing the sand doesn't mean it is not going to be established. The live rock is what will be your source of life and will seed the new sand. If you choose to use the existing sand. You will likely see a high increase in Nitrates and Phosphates, probably some algae problems of various types as disturbing the existing sand will have a lot of detritus in it. You will be glad you used new sand and maybe a few cups of the existing sand to help seed it.
 

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thats right. some sand is sold "live" but it cant be too live,IMO, i would imagine its cultures would be stuggling just being in a bag for so long. still it will be live over time.
 

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AHHHHHHH!!!! This stuff drives me absolutely nuts because there is no logically thinking involved with some people saying "it has to be done this way or else"

First, you will not get a fricken cycle by moving to a 20 gallon bigger tank! You are not doubling your size of your tank or something crazy.

NOW with that being said there are some MINOR things that COULD cause a cycle, and that would be stirring your sand bed depending on how long it has been set up. Since crap gets pushed down into the sand and to go through the nitrogen cycle, by stirring it, you could release more crap than you want to.

How long has the 55 been set up? if you are talking a couple months then go ahead and use the sand over, if you are talking 1 year or more, don't take the sand over, because there is much more of a risk.

If i were you... and i have done a lot of upgrading, i went from a 29 to a 55 to a 110, and NEVER EVER HAD A CYCLE FROM MOVING UP, AND I LITERALLY MOVED EVERYTHING IN ONE DAY, I would buy new sand. By dead dry sand, because live sand has a lot of die off and part of the claims of being able to cycle your tank faster with it, are because of the die off starting the nitrogen cycle for you.

so buying dead sand and rinsing it well should remove any left over crap you might have. That being said, I have often just bought brand new live sand and never had a cycle either, but I guess it's always possible.

Ok now onto the live rock, almost all of the beneficial bacteria you are going to need is on your live rock, and not your sand, so by taking that over, you shouldn't have a cycle AS LONG AS YOU DON'T START ADDING STUFF TO YOUR TANK TOO FAST! The bacteria present in your tank is going to be exactly related to the amount of ammonia being produced, you could have 300 lbs of live rock that's "fully cured" but with one fish in there, there is going to be hardly any good bacteria on it. The bacteria multiplies and dies off with the amount of bioload. So that is why slowly stocking gives you the chance of building up more bacteria to the new waste load.

Now, if you know of a place that has 100% fully cured live rock, and i mean "you know" because you have personally seen the same piece in a tank for quite some time, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE ARE FISH IN THERE!!!! if there are no fish in the live rock tank, there will hardly be any bacteria built up on the rock, so it's really not worth the $5 per lb or whatever, and you want to be sure that all the die off is definitely cycled.

THE OTHER OPTION IS BUYING DRY ROCK! Make sure you rinse it and rinse it and rinse it to make sure there is no little dead buggers on there, but adding dry rock will not cause a cycle in your tank either, as long as you don't add a crap load of it. When i went from my 55 to 110, I had about 75 lbs of live rock, and i wanted another 25 or so. well I added 5 lbs of dry rock every 2 weeks until I had enough. I never had a cycle, and there is no reason to have a cycle, it's dead! Of course the dead rock takes a lot longer to look pretty and get coraline on it than fully cured live rock piece would, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper.

ALSO, just because you are going to a bigger tank does not mean you will automatically need any more live rock it all, it's all about bioload. If you are keeping the same amount of fish, you don't need any more than you would in a 55, it's just when you try to add more fish, if you don't have enough room for the bacteria to colonize, then you run into problems. So if you don't plan on adding anything for a while just move it all over, and then add more rock later. It does not have to be done first!

So as I said before, I am not saying that my way is by any means the way you have to go, of course the methods of having a completely other cycled tank will definitely work... i mean that's how you started with your first tank, but it is in no way the only way you can do it. Sometimes people just "follow the rules" without ever putting any thought into it, and that's why I'm letting you know there other options, and more importantly the logic behind why the other way will work just as well.

whew.... i feel better lol :nhl_checking:
 

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Now, if you know of a place that has 100% fully cured live rock, and i mean "you know" because you have personally seen the same piece in a tank for quite some time, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE ARE FISH IN THERE!!!! if there are no fish in the live rock tank, there will hardly be any bacteria built up on the rock, so it's really not worth the $5 per lb or whatever, and you want to be sure that all the die off is definitely cycled.
This is not entirely true - live rock CAN be cycled without fish - there is plenty of die off on rock when it is moved to release ammonia into the water to keep the beneficial bacteria alive. Food can also be used which will feed the bacteria as it decays...so there does not have to be fish in the live rock tank. Lots of people also cycle live rock in buckets without fish and just a heater and current.
 

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This is not entirely true - live rock CAN be cycled without fish - there is plenty of die off on rock when it is moved to release ammonia into the water to keep the beneficial bacteria alive. Food can also be used which will feed the bacteria as it decays...so there does not have to be fish in the live rock tank. Lots of people also cycle live rock in buckets without fish and just a heater and current.
if you read what i said though, I said if a fish store is listing rock as "fully cured" there should be fish in there, just to prove it is fully cured, and them not lying.

I agree, there does not need to be fish to cycle rock, but I would never pay $5-$10 a lb for "fully cured live rock" from a LFS unless I saw fish in there, because how else are you going to know if they are full or crap or not.

I do not agree with using live animals to cycle a tank, and I never will. So I'm glad we could get that clarified, and we are on the same page when it comes to cycling with livestock being a no no!
 

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That's the problem with the writinig - sometimes what you write can be misinterpreted:) I thought you meant there had to be fish in there for it to be cycled;)
 

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That's the problem with the writinig - sometimes what you write can be misinterpreted:) I thought you meant there had to be fish in there for it to be cycled;)
Lol! Definitely not, in fact i won't buy from a store that I see them cycling with animals! IMO that's just cruel, and horribly unnecessary!
 

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That also brings up people that buy fully cured lr online and expect it to be tank ready when they get it, completely ignoring the fact that the shipping process will most certainly kill off some things and require curing again. Too funny. Some people will believe anything lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I just wanted to say thank you Katy you are very helpful
AHHHHHHH!!!! This stuff drives me absolutely nuts because there is no logically thinking involved with some people saying "it has to be done this way or else"

First, you will not get a fricken cycle by moving to a 20 gallon bigger tank! You are not doubling your size of your tank or something crazy.

NOW with that being said there are some MINOR things that COULD cause a cycle, and that would be stirring your sand bed depending on how long it has been set up. Since crap gets pushed down into the sand and to go through the nitrogen cycle, by stirring it, you could release more crap than you want to.

How long has the 55 been set up? if you are talking a couple months then go ahead and use the sand over, if you are talking 1 year or more, don't take the sand over, because there is much more of a risk.

If i were you... and i have done a lot of upgrading, i went from a 29 to a 55 to a 110, and NEVER EVER HAD A CYCLE FROM MOVING UP, AND I LITERALLY MOVED EVERYTHING IN ONE DAY, I would buy new sand. By dead dry sand, because live sand has a lot of die off and part of the claims of being able to cycle your tank faster with it, are because of the die off starting the nitrogen cycle for you.

so buying dead sand and rinsing it well should remove any left over crap you might have. That being said, I have often just bought brand new live sand and never had a cycle either, but I guess it's always possible.

Ok now onto the live rock, almost all of the beneficial bacteria you are going to need is on your live rock, and not your sand, so by taking that over, you shouldn't have a cycle AS LONG AS YOU DON'T START ADDING STUFF TO YOUR TANK TOO FAST! The bacteria present in your tank is going to be exactly related to the amount of ammonia being produced, you could have 300 lbs of live rock that's "fully cured" but with one fish in there, there is going to be hardly any good bacteria on it. The bacteria multiplies and dies off with the amount of bioload. So that is why slowly stocking gives you the chance of building up more bacteria to the new waste load.

Now, if you know of a place that has 100% fully cured live rock, and i mean "you know" because you have personally seen the same piece in a tank for quite some time, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE ARE FISH IN THERE!!!! if there are no fish in the live rock tank, there will hardly be any bacteria built up on the rock, so it's really not worth the $5 per lb or whatever, and you want to be sure that all the die off is definitely cycled.

THE OTHER OPTION IS BUYING DRY ROCK! Make sure you rinse it and rinse it and rinse it to make sure there is no little dead buggers on there, but adding dry rock will not cause a cycle in your tank either, as long as you don't add a crap load of it. When i went from my 55 to 110, I had about 75 lbs of live rock, and i wanted another 25 or so. well I added 5 lbs of dry rock every 2 weeks until I had enough. I never had a cycle, and there is no reason to have a cycle, it's dead! Of course the dead rock takes a lot longer to look pretty and get coraline on it than fully cured live rock piece would, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper.

ALSO, just because you are going to a bigger tank does not mean you will automatically need any more live rock it all, it's all about bioload. If you are keeping the same amount of fish, you don't need any more than you would in a 55, it's just when you try to add more fish, if you don't have enough room for the bacteria to colonize, then you run into problems. So if you don't plan on adding anything for a while just move it all over, and then add more rock later. It does not have to be done first!

So as I said before, I am not saying that my way is by any means the way you have to go, of course the methods of having a completely other cycled tank will definitely work... i mean that's how you started with your first tank, but it is in no way the only way you can do it. Sometimes people just "follow the rules" without ever putting any thought into it, and that's why I'm letting you know there other options, and more importantly the logic behind why the other way will work just as well.

whew.... i feel better lol :nhl_checking:
 

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I'm glad to help. I have made my fair share of mistakes, but I always wanted to know "why!?" and I stopped taking advice unless people could tell me why, and it seems like most people will either say "well that's what I was told" or "it always worked for me" but they can't give a logical explanation. So when I see these questions I like to give at least other ways that "could work"
 

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OP is not giving us enough information. If they are simply moving all the rock and livestock from one tank to another, then it's perfectly safe to move from one tank to another without issues. As long as the rock doesn't spend a lot of time in the air there should be no issues. Heck, the move usually cleans out debris from your current rock and this actually helps things. The bigger trick is to keep as much of your current water as possible without resorting to more than a 50% water change because this is always stressfull. So, this is when you often resort to 5gal buckets to keep your rock in because you don't want to move livestock from an existing tank directly to a tank with 100% freshly mixed salt water. Bacteria won't mind, but your corals and fish won't like it.

What we don't know is if additional rock is being added to the bigger tank. If it's unseasoned rock, or partially cured, you will likely see some unstability. If the new rocks is cured, or it's just dry rock, likely the transition will go without incident.

What screws you with tank moves is the substrate. If you have an inch of crushed coral, likely no big deal. However, if you have a deeper sand bed scooping and moving this tends to stir up all kinds of partially disolved organics and other crud that is now getting air and causing trouble. I love deep sand beds for nitrate reduction, but man, they are nightmare to move.

Lots of people also cycle live rock in buckets without fish and just a heater and current.
Man, do I disagree with this. I never, ever, EVER buy LR from the reef store from a tank without fish in it. I've also had plenty of tanks start spiking ammonia if they've just been bare frag tanks for a few months, and then I add a single damsel. Bacteria in LR can survive in reduced metabolic state for quite awhile without an ammonia food source, but they will start to die off sooner or later. Decay is also conditional on the type of rock and what's in it. The big tank at the reef store with 'on sale' LR that's been sitting 6months with no bioload isn't the stuff to start a new tank with without extreme care.
 

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OP is not giving us enough information. If they are simply moving all the rock and livestock from one tank to another, then it's perfectly safe to move from one tank to another without issues. As long as the rock doesn't spend a lot of time in the air there should be no issues. Heck, the move usually cleans out debris from your current rock and this actually helps things. The bigger trick is to keep as much of your current water as possible without resorting to more than a 50% water change because this is always stressfull. So, this is when you often resort to 5gal buckets to keep your rock in because you don't want to move livestock from an existing tank directly to a tank with 100% freshly mixed salt water. Bacteria won't mind, but your corals and fish won't like it.

What we don't know is if additional rock is being added to the bigger tank. If it's unseasoned rock, or partially cured, you will likely see some unstability. If the new rocks is cured, or it's just dry rock, likely the transition will go without incident.

What screws you with tank moves is the substrate. If you have an inch of crushed coral, likely no big deal. However, if you have a deeper sand bed scooping and moving this tends to stir up all kinds of partially disolved organics and other crud that is now getting air and causing trouble. I love deep sand beds for nitrate reduction, but man, they are nightmare to move.

Man, do I disagree with this. I never, ever, EVER buy LR from the reef store from a tank without fish in it. I've also had plenty of tanks start spiking ammonia if they've just been bare frag tanks for a few months, and then I add a single damsel. Bacteria in LR can survive in reduced metabolic state for quite awhile without an ammonia food source, but they will start to die off sooner or later. Decay is also conditional on the type of rock and what's in it. The big tank at the reef store with 'on sale' LR that's been sitting 6months with no bioload isn't the stuff to start a new tank with without extreme care.
Did you read my post? Lol, you repeated everything I said, a simple +1 would of done just fine.

Notice my sarcasm, I'm just giving you a hard time, and lol, considering you said everything that I did, I think your brilliant LMAO
 
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