[GardenCtyReefer]

Random Clownfish Loss ***128532;

Hey everyone, hoping someone can help provide some insight as to why I lost one of my clowns. There was a total of 4 clowns in the tank, now 3, the 3 are still perfectly fine show no signs of stress or disease. There is also a Citron Goby in the tank, also perfectly healthy. What could possibly cause a clownfish to randomly die? Did water change late last light and this morning one of my midnights was gone. Also a peppermint shrimp was dead. The shrimp I think a bubble tip might have got since this morning one of the bubble tips had moved to a cave in rock where the shrimp would always hang out. This is second midnight I've lost in I think 3 weeks, both times after a water change. The last one I lost I thought had some genetic issue because it's mouth was almost triangular. All levels are good, Nitrite 0 nitrate 0 phosphate.1 calcium 440 dkh 9 salinity 1.026 Temp 76-77. Tank is a 32gal cube mixed reef mainly SPS. All corals are fine btw. Any and all thoughts or suggestions welcome.

 

[zachogden]

4 clowns is a lot in a 32 gal. Keeping a clown harem usually requires a large tank with a lot of feeding. If I had to guess it's an aggression/territory issue in such a small tank.

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

The 3 midnights were all brothers from same batch. Never seen any aggression between them even at feeding time. They would all share and host the same RBTA, most of the time would all sleep in it together at night as well. It just seems odd it’s happened after water changes. My wife just informed me that my son had gotten the lid off the bucket of salt so the last bit of salt (which was used for yesterday’s water change) had been exposed to the air for anywhere from 3-4 days before she noticed it and put the lid back on. I’m assuming it’s possibly for some sort of reaction to happen when the salt is exposed to air for too long.


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[GardenCtyReefer]

Also, the clown that passed was probably the largest of them all.


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[zachogden]

The 3 midnights were all brothers from same batch. Never seen any aggression between them even at feeding time. They would all share and host the same RBTA, most of the time would all sleep in it together at night as well.

There's a lot of anecdotes about clownfish suddenly becoming aggressive, even in established hierarchies/systems, which is why you usually see them in pairs or singles. I'm not saying this is 100% sure the cause but I think there's enough stories of multiple clowns in small systems randomly dying that it's something worth thinking about. Clown harem systems are usually fed 2-3 times a day with multiple nems to reduce the chance of territorial aggression popping up.

You know your system best, I'm just saying based on what you've said so far it seems the most likely culprit.

It just seems odd it***8217;s happened after water changes. My wife just informed me that my son had gotten the lid off the bucket of salt so the last bit of salt (which was used for yesterday***8217;s water change) had been exposed to the air for anywhere from 3-4 days before she noticed it and put the lid back on. I***8217;m assuming it***8217;s possibly for some sort of reaction to happen when the salt is exposed to air for too long.

As far as I'm aware the only sort of reaction that will happen with salt exposed to air is a hydration reaction, the products of which you would notice, namely very clumpy, hard to mix salt. Kind of like table salt when it's left out too long. Unless you're tossing in chunks of hydrated salt chunks that the fish try and chomp on, I think this might be more of a coincidence than a cause.

edit: have you confirmed your temp and salinity with a second test? I had weird fish losses before I found out my heaters were reading 4 degrees under true temp

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I run a PinPoint Salinty monitor on the tank and also in my mixing barrel as well as typically checking the salt as I mix with both a hydrometer and refractometer. Because I only had enough salt for a water change basically last night I just mixed it in a 5gal bucket still using the pinpoint monitor to test salinity. The water sat in the bucket circulating/mixing for roughly 10hours before doing the water change. I always add roughly .3mL of Prime to freshly mixed water. I am running a RODI but I question the integrity of my DI Resin, it’s probably due for replacement. I did notice on the TDS it was picking up around 80ppm while mixing the water but chalked it up to salt particles still mixing in the bucket. I did use a different circulation pump to mix this time I hadn’t used before that was on my 220gal before it crashed roughly 1.5 years ago. It has been cleaned with distilled vinegar before using though. The heater I can only trust it’s doing as it should and shutting off at any temps about 77.3*. There are 2 thermometers on the tank, on stick on and one digital LCD. The stick on always indicates the temp being between 76-78 and the digital reads anywhere from 76.9 first thing in the morning without any lights on and around 77.5 towards the end of the day after the lights have been on close to their 8 hours.


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[GardenCtyReefer]

I did add a few corals Sunday prior to the water change but they were all dipped prior to being placed and show no signs of stress/damage/etc, all have opened up nicely including the SPS


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[lemonjello]

I kinda don't feel like 10 hrs is enough mixing time. I wanna say itll still be caustic . I wait as little as 24 hrs .

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

The same thing crossed my mind but I can remember mixing salt in buckets for less than 20 minutes before adding it to my tanks for water changes. Typically I mix new water in my can on Monday’s and do water changes Sundays so it’s been mixing almost an entire week before water change day. It sits in a brute trash can with 2 power heads and a heater. But yesterday because I was basically out of salt, can was empty and my new box of salt from Amazon hadn’t arrived yet rather than throw my water change schedule off I just went with it. I’m leaning towards my salt went bad. The bucket I used salt from was actually an old bucket that come to think of it I’m not sure how old it actually was. At least 6 months.


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[lemonjello]

I don't think blaming the salt is where the answer is . if salt, after absorbing water would be so bad that it would kill fish no one would by it and I'm pretty sure they may not try to sell it all together.

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I’m sure you’re right. I’m honestly grasping at straws trying to figure out why it happened. This is the most fish I’ve lost in close to 3 years aside from an entire system crash I had a year ago due to being out of town and a return pump failing in my 220


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[lemonjello]

also the 80ppm thing ?? ill assume its the ro water your talking about ? ive measured tds on mixed salt at such I high (over 1500ppm)number none of my meters would read it so I didn't think yo meant your mixed water. ro/di water at 80ppm is bad and also means so is your di resin. so my next question is how on earth do you change and top off your with 80ppm ro/di and still have 0ppm nitrate ??

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I am questioning my DI Resin. I may have worded it incorrectly, when I read the 80ppm it while I was pouring salt into the bucket and it went from 2 to 80 which at the time I thought to be because of the salt dissolving and the meter picking up on it. I’ve only been using a RODI for about 7 months, prior to that I ran water straight from my tap with no issues with nitrate Nitrite phosphates ph etc. it wasn’t until I started a dedicated SPS tank did I finally get the rodi.


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[GardenCtyReefer]

Random Clownfish Loss ***128532;

The other clowns seem to be going about their business as usual, no signs of stress or infections of any sort. There's Cheeto which is a basic occy, Milky Way who's an extreme black phantom & Batman AKA The Dark Knight who's a midnight (please forgive the names, my wife and 7 y/o tend to win at naming my fish....)

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[weimers75]

I'm betting on the fact that the clowns killed one. They don't understand whether they're from the same batch or not. As they grow you're going to lose another one until there is a pair left. It's just a matter of time in a tank that small. I doubt it'll take another year before that happens, especially since one has just died. They're maturing, and setting up their territories. That's just what clowns do.

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I do know how clowns can become fairly aggressive and territorial but I have to imagine I would have seen at least some signs of aggression before hand or would have seen either some damage to fins or some fighting during the day. The clown that passed had no signs of being attacked or missing pieces of tail or dorsal fins. I remember when I had my RedSea Maxx 170 I had 4 clowns in it one of which was a Golden Nugget Maroon and I ended up having to remove 2 of the clowns and put in a different tank because the gold nugget was so aggressive. But the aggression was fairly obvious and I could see it with my own eyes. I’ve seen no behavior of that nature with the current clowns.


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[weimers75]

I know that you may not have seen it yet...but why put the clowns through what is bound to happen sooner or later in a tank that size? Why not start with 2 from the beginning and avoid the stress on the clowns of rehoming them?

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I’m 100% sure it’s not that now. Another water change, another clown is not doing well. It’s actually looking like clownfish disease, heavy breathing and white stringy poop. I woke up at 5am today to find him getting stuck to the overflow. I quickly setup a quarantine and have him in it now. I added some copper to it and setup a WiFi camera so I can monitor him throughout the day. Just seems very odd to me that water changes seem to be making whatever it is more prominent.


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[weimers75]

I agree that that is unusual...BUT I still go back to the fact that you're asking for problems. Even if you've witnessed no aggression yet, its going to happen. Stress makes them more susceptable to diseases....so it could be indirectly playing a part in it.

 

[GardenCtyReefer]

I don’t deny you make a valid point. It just seems very odd as to when it’s happening and also all 3 clowns now that have had the issue came from same local breeder. Will probably contact them today to ask if any other batches had similar issues. So far the clown in quarantine seems to be doing ok. It’s hard to see from the webcam if his breathing has normalized or not. Hoping for the best.


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