Ok, I noticed alot of folks run "sumps" though the concensous seems very anti -wet/dry. So, if your not running a wet/dry or a fuge, what's the advantage of a big ole sump? I always thought that sump and wet/dry were interchangable terms. I'm learning this is not the case. Do folks mean fuge now a days when they say sump? I'm confused.
Sump vs. Wet/Dry
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
A "wet/dry" has replaceable filter pads, and bioballs or a biowheel... while the pads have good points..... they can be a pain to change in some wet/dry systems.. I've read people saying that bio balls tie up the nitrates rather than eliminate them........
a sump/refugium generally uses little or no filtration as far as pads go....... but the macro algae does do a good job of eliminating the nitrates. so I'd say a sump/refugium has less maintenance and is more efficient than a wet/dry
JMO
Dan
a sump/refugium generally uses little or no filtration as far as pads go....... but the macro algae does do a good job of eliminating the nitrates. so I'd say a sump/refugium has less maintenance and is more efficient than a wet/dry
JMO
Dan
Joined
·
1,139 Posts
I'm still kind of a newb too. But by running a sump you are increasing your water volume and also allowing a place to run a larger, more effieceint skimmer. Now, alot of people have built a fuge into their sump amking the 2 into one unit. A fuge is an area of low flow usually with a DSB and macro growing in it.
Sump - is really just used to increase your water volume
and a place to hide things like heaters, grounding
probes, skimmers ect...
Fuge - is basically another tank in the waterflow loop to
grow macro algaes to remove nitrates and
phosphates from the water, increase pod
populations.
Now, the reason for the sump/fuge being interchangalbe sometimes is because some people incorporate the fuge inside their sump. Meaning they section off an area in the sump to grow macro algae, place extra live rock..
WetDry - is used to efficiently turn ammonia into nitrites
and nitrites into nitrates.
The reason people are not using wetdrys as much is because they are relying on the liverock, dsb, water changes, skimming, and macro algaes to remove ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
That's my take on the 3. I personally have a sump and a seperate fuge.
hth
bob
and a place to hide things like heaters, grounding
probes, skimmers ect...
Fuge - is basically another tank in the waterflow loop to
grow macro algaes to remove nitrates and
phosphates from the water, increase pod
populations.
Now, the reason for the sump/fuge being interchangalbe sometimes is because some people incorporate the fuge inside their sump. Meaning they section off an area in the sump to grow macro algae, place extra live rock..
WetDry - is used to efficiently turn ammonia into nitrites
and nitrites into nitrates.
The reason people are not using wetdrys as much is because they are relying on the liverock, dsb, water changes, skimming, and macro algaes to remove ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
That's my take on the 3. I personally have a sump and a seperate fuge.
hth
bob
Joined
·
2,995 Posts
well the big benifits to a sump are that you can run you protien skimmer from there instead of off your display tank..
also you can add top of to the sump instead of directly into the display tank which could throw water conditions off..
and you can also add suplemts to the sump they you can not add directly to the display tank.. like Turbo cal. .. or you can run a kalk drip into your sump for even more added bonuses!
I had a hard time understanding the anti- wet/dry belifes as well.. but after alot of reading and searching I found alot of answers to support what everyone kept telling me.
From what I have heard and read and researched.. the biological filtration that a wet/dry has to offer becomes more of a contaminante then benifical.. With a established tank, including the proper ammount of LR and a working substrate biological filteration in any other form is not nessacary..
What ends up happening in a Wet/dry is that the bio balls or bio bale ect. becomes a nitrate factory!
hoep that helps.. there is tons of info on the net about the benifits and non-benifits of both.. do some searching and such and you will understand both sides alot more clearly!
also you can add top of to the sump instead of directly into the display tank which could throw water conditions off..
and you can also add suplemts to the sump they you can not add directly to the display tank.. like Turbo cal. .. or you can run a kalk drip into your sump for even more added bonuses!
I had a hard time understanding the anti- wet/dry belifes as well.. but after alot of reading and searching I found alot of answers to support what everyone kept telling me.
From what I have heard and read and researched.. the biological filtration that a wet/dry has to offer becomes more of a contaminante then benifical.. With a established tank, including the proper ammount of LR and a working substrate biological filteration in any other form is not nessacary..
What ends up happening in a Wet/dry is that the bio balls or bio bale ect. becomes a nitrate factory!
hoep that helps.. there is tons of info on the net about the benifits and non-benifits of both.. do some searching and such and you will understand both sides alot more clearly!
I'm just simply going to state that I have used a wet/dry on my reef for over two years now and I have ZERO nitrates.
As for bio-balls being a nitrate factory... yes, they are and that's exactly what they were engineered to be. I would invite everyone to think about something for a moment... if you have a complete biological process going on in your tank, something MUST be a nitrate factory else you would have either a lot of ammonia or a lot of nitrite.
Live Rock (and other low-flow anaerobic areas in the system) have the necessary bacteria that will remove some nitrate, but not all nitrate.
The people that have the biggest issues with nitrate build-up from wet/dry filtration systems are the people that have a preference toward a more laid-back approach to system maintenance, especially water changes. The most effective possible method of getting rid of nitrates is through export. Export can take place through anaerobic bacteria, consumption by macroalgae (but then you must "export" the macroalgae that has bound the nitrates), or water changes. Replacing evaporated water only dilutes the nitrates, it does not export them.
Since water changes also provide numerous other great benefits, including the replenishment of trace elements, etc., I personally choose to do two small (5%) water changes per week to keep my trace elements replenished and ensure fresh water for all of my tank's inhabitants. From my research and my experience, having a balanced system is a good approach (live rock, macroalgae, etc.) however there is no true substitute for a good regimen of exporting the fishy-waste.
As for bio-balls being a nitrate factory... yes, they are and that's exactly what they were engineered to be. I would invite everyone to think about something for a moment... if you have a complete biological process going on in your tank, something MUST be a nitrate factory else you would have either a lot of ammonia or a lot of nitrite.
Live Rock (and other low-flow anaerobic areas in the system) have the necessary bacteria that will remove some nitrate, but not all nitrate.
The people that have the biggest issues with nitrate build-up from wet/dry filtration systems are the people that have a preference toward a more laid-back approach to system maintenance, especially water changes. The most effective possible method of getting rid of nitrates is through export. Export can take place through anaerobic bacteria, consumption by macroalgae (but then you must "export" the macroalgae that has bound the nitrates), or water changes. Replacing evaporated water only dilutes the nitrates, it does not export them.
Since water changes also provide numerous other great benefits, including the replenishment of trace elements, etc., I personally choose to do two small (5%) water changes per week to keep my trace elements replenished and ensure fresh water for all of my tank's inhabitants. From my research and my experience, having a balanced system is a good approach (live rock, macroalgae, etc.) however there is no true substitute for a good regimen of exporting the fishy-waste.
Yes, bio balls are an effective means of nitrite to nitrate, however live rock is a more natural and stable means of completing the cycle.
With bio balls, there is less of the balanced cycle happening in the live rock.
So long as nothing happens to the bio balls or wet/dry, then there should be no difference. However, if something happens to the bio balls (which are less stable of an environment) then the live rock will not be able to handle the extra load, and the biological cycle will fail and have to start over.
However, with sufficient live rock in the system (either in the display tank, fuge, or even in the sump) it should handle the cycle more naturally.
A large danger lies in prefilter pads used either with or without bio balls. They must be cleaned regularly, at least weekly, to prevent them from taking on part of the bio load. Or else, when they do get cleaned, they will then send the cycle out of balance.
Filter pads are a good thing for removing solid waste, but must be cleaned often.
My 2cents
mame
PS if you're switching from wet/dry to a simple sump, the safest method is to remove the balls slowly over the course of a few months. This lets the LR adjust to the new bio load at a reasonable pace.
With bio balls, there is less of the balanced cycle happening in the live rock.
So long as nothing happens to the bio balls or wet/dry, then there should be no difference. However, if something happens to the bio balls (which are less stable of an environment) then the live rock will not be able to handle the extra load, and the biological cycle will fail and have to start over.
However, with sufficient live rock in the system (either in the display tank, fuge, or even in the sump) it should handle the cycle more naturally.
A large danger lies in prefilter pads used either with or without bio balls. They must be cleaned regularly, at least weekly, to prevent them from taking on part of the bio load. Or else, when they do get cleaned, they will then send the cycle out of balance.
Filter pads are a good thing for removing solid waste, but must be cleaned often.
My 2cents
mame
PS if you're switching from wet/dry to a simple sump, the safest method is to remove the balls slowly over the course of a few months. This lets the LR adjust to the new bio load at a reasonable pace.
Filter pads definitely need to be cleaned often... the biggest concern here would be with filter pads that are partially exposed to air (e.g. the water from the overflow "dumps" onto the pad). If the pad is fully-submerged and lodged in a location that forces the water to move through it, there will be very little, if any aerobic (i.e., nitrifying) bacteria on it and thus it poses less of a problem. Regardless, they should be cleaned.
As for LR only, yes, it works great and if there is no shock to the system, you will have great results. As for the wet/dry, I like the added insurance against a large ammonia spike that would occur due to something dying behind my rock-scaping. Bio-balls are substantially more efficient at processing ammonia and nitrite into nitrate than LR is. The bio-balls will not further break down the nitrate into nitrogen and oxygen though, which is what LR can do to some degree.
That is the reason that I like having my wet/dry PLUS almost 2.5 lbs. of LR per gallon of system water. Again, it has worked for me extremely well for over two years (3 years in November).
As for LR only, yes, it works great and if there is no shock to the system, you will have great results. As for the wet/dry, I like the added insurance against a large ammonia spike that would occur due to something dying behind my rock-scaping. Bio-balls are substantially more efficient at processing ammonia and nitrite into nitrate than LR is. The bio-balls will not further break down the nitrate into nitrogen and oxygen though, which is what LR can do to some degree.
That is the reason that I like having my wet/dry PLUS almost 2.5 lbs. of LR per gallon of system water. Again, it has worked for me extremely well for over two years (3 years in November).
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
