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Discussion Starter #1
Just came across this article during a search and thought others around here may be interested considering it concerns a local company, and our hobby/ animals we all love and care for....

Richard Perrin and an employee, Joseph Franko, had no commercial Florida licenses to take the living organisms, and illegally harvested a number of protected species, according to the felony indictment filed Sept. 5 by U.S. Attorney Wifredo Ferrer's office.

For the full article you can go here....
Michigan men charged with federal wildlife crimes - KeysNet.com
 

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That's insane. Hopefully some kind of big misunderstanding???
From reading the article, I don't think its just a misunderstanding. Sure the news can sway things either way they want, but from the sounds of it they didn't have any collection permits at all so its kinda hard to have a misunderstanding there when you have a van full of recently collected animals but 0 paperwork.
 

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Wow.... illegal collecton + felony indictment hitting pretty close to home!?!...

If this is true I hope they get what is coming to them. Hopefully there is more to the story than the article talks about. The Trop and Dick Perrin have always been a big supporter of the hobby. This is just sad.

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no kidding, holy crap. I love trop and it's sad that it's days are potentially over. Even such, I'm shocked at the behavior of folks that should be protecting these animals and preserving the hobby.
 

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Well...it won't be good publicity for the hobby BUT. When compared to all the other stuff going on now that the feds are supposedly in charge of, it is a shame that he stands a chance of losing his business and going to prison. Good grief. Drug cartels rule portions of the southern US, God knows what actually happened in Benghazi, we have a health care fiasco shoved down our throat that no one actually read, and nearly half the country is collecting some type of fed assistance. If he did it, yes it was wrong. But should he face prison time or lose his business? No.
 

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Well...it won't be good publicity for the hobby BUT. When compared to all the other stuff going on now that the feds are supposedly in charge of, it is a shame that he stands a chance of losing his business and going to prison. Good grief. Drug cartels rule portions of the southern US, God knows what actually happened in Benghazi, we have a health care fiasco shoved down our throat that no one actually read, and nearly half the country is collecting some type of fed assistance. If he did it, yes it was wrong. But should he face prison time or lose his business? No.
If you can't do the time/ handle the potential outcome.... don't do the CRIME! If it is true you can't seriously tell me that he didn't know what he allegedly was doing was illegal.... Dick is regarded as one of (if not THE) coral pioneer of this hobby and has been slanging fish and coral for YEARS! Not only that but he allegedly stored some of the animals at another place in FL that would ship them to him here in MI..... wonder why that was lol

By your logic, am I safe in assuming you think the drug cartels shouldn't lose their business either because there are bigger fish that could be fried elsewhere? Or is it not a big deal because like most of the country, "It isn't that big of a deal its just fish and corals, not like it was real animals like dogs and cats"??
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I remember someone posting about their small as a dime French Angelfish a few years ago and people including myself questioning the legality of the collection.

Here's the thread from a couple years ago:
http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/reef-fish/120964-tiniest-angel-ever.html#post921301
That would be right around the same time as the alleged September trip in the indictment.... I know the link you posted showed someone saying they were supposedly from Texas and not regulated there but sure sounds fishy.
 

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Yeah, I knew I was stirring the pot with that one. But the pot should be stirred. I take very seriously the care of my little tank creatures, as I think all of you do. But who among us can say, especially when you first started out, that fish/inverts/corals did not die under your care. And who can say that they traced back the exact provenance of those creatures. I am relatively new to the hobby, and I think the majority of our corals are captive bred. Not so much with the fish and inverts. I felt very badly when I bought 2 Bangaii cardinals and one eliminated another (2 males?). Felt a LOT worse when I learned that their native population in the Lembai (sp) peninsula in Indonesia has been decimated due to their popularity in the aquarium trade. Did I buy a captive bred or what? I didn't know. How many powder blue tangs die to get one to a reefer who actually knows what he is doing and can keep it successfully? And what is the deal with Linkia starfish--they are sooo beautiful, but have a dismal survival rate. Yet every internet seller and pet store sells them. And then there seems to be a bit of competition among more experienced reefers to get the more rare animals...which is probably where (if they did it) the guys at the Trop come in. Perhaps a calculated risk, but lets face it. This is an elitist hobby for the most part, and rare animals rake in the bigger bucks. Cutting a few fed regulations and offering really cool stuff to reefers may have upped the profit levels. Which is what the whole distribution of these creatures is all about. We can sit and smugly say that was not ethical WHATEVER, but we have no clue as to how many animals died on the way to the US, how they were captured, and there is not a lot of oversight as to who buys them. Correct me if I am wrong, but some of these fish still come from Indonesia and may have been caught by cyanide. We see our pretties in the store or on the internet and don't question how they came to be for sale or at what cost. I don't think Dick Perrin should be castigated for what he may have done (heck, I never met him or went to his store) but we should all think about our role in this industry and how we can police ourselves from within.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah, I knew I was stirring the pot with that one. But the pot should be stirred. I take very seriously the care of my little tank creatures, as I think all of you do. But who among us can say, especially when you first started out, that fish/inverts/corals did not die under your care. And who can say that they traced back the exact provenance of those creatures. I am relatively new to the hobby, and I think the majority of our corals are captive bred. Not so much with the fish and inverts. I felt very badly when I bought 2 Bangaii cardinals and one eliminated another (2 males?). Felt a LOT worse when I learned that their native population in the Lembai (sp) peninsula in Indonesia has been decimated due to their popularity in the aquarium trade. Did I buy a captive bred or what? I didn't know. How many powder blue tangs die to get one to a reefer who actually knows what he is doing and can keep it successfully? And what is the deal with Linkia starfish--they are sooo beautiful, but have a dismal survival rate. Yet every internet seller and pet store sells them. And then there seems to be a bit of competition among more experienced reefers to get the more rare animals...which is probably where (if they did it) the guys at the Trop come in. Perhaps a calculated risk, but lets face it. This is an elitist hobby for the most part, and rare animals rake in the bigger bucks. Cutting a few fed regulations and offering really cool stuff to reefers may have upped the profit levels. Which is what the whole distribution of these creatures is all about. We can sit and smugly say that was not ethical WHATEVER, but we have no clue as to how many animals died on the way to the US, how they were captured, and there is not a lot of oversight as to who buys them. Correct me if I am wrong, but some of these fish still come from Indonesia and may have been caught by cyanide. We see our pretties in the store or on the internet and don't question how they came to be for sale or at what cost. I don't think Dick Perrin should be castigated for what he may have done (heck, I never met him or went to his store) but we should all think about our role in this industry and how we can police ourselves from within.
If it is true, he knew the risks, calculated them and still decided it was worth the risk.... he likely got caught, was indicted and will have to deal with whatever punishment he is handed if convicted, knowing 100% that it could have happened before anyone allegedly put a key in a vans ignition.

Again, because $$$ is at the end the drug cartels are still good to go right, never mind that they are illegal? I mean after all they are really in it for the $ too, so it is justifiable correct :)

All in all I think your missing the real point, yes fish do die in this hobby, especially when starting out with bad information.... but that is even more of a reason why things need to be done properly from the collection all the way through to the end buyer, and why there are laws in place regulating sizes, types, etc. that can be legally collected. When someone goes outside of those guidelines/ laws and it becomes illegal.... See 1st section of this post ;)
 

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I know. But the article from the Keys referenced a 10 yr sentence, which really set me off. I am a geekster animal lover, the only things I stomp are yellow jacket wasps and spiders. Oh, and mosquitoes. The potential punishment just sounded so out of whack with all the other criminal stuff swirling around right now.
 

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I know. But the article from the Keys referenced a 10 yr sentence, which really set me off. I am a geekster animal lover, the only things I stomp are yellow jacket wasps and spiders. Oh, and mosquitoes. The potential punishment just sounded so out of whack with all the other criminal stuff swirling around right now.
Its a maximum 10 yrs, aka upto 10 yrs that they face if convicted.... not a 100% guaranteed 10 yrs. Also, theres always the possibility of a plea deal to lesser charges or something. I agree, yes there are "worse" things going on in the world, it still doesn't make it any less illegal, or reduce the amount of risk they were willing to take if they did it. While I doubt that they would get 10 yrs, if they did I can't really say it wouldn't be deserved since I am sure they knew the risk 100% before deciding to do it if they did in fact do it.
 
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