if so, do you teach them that if someone hits them they should hit back? why? why not? do tell.
Blitz
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No you should teach children to hit back if they have been hit
why, because its not something children need to learning at such a young age and if they do they can be doing it at school and then you have more problems.
Its not right to hit back because 2 rights dont make a wrong
why, because its not something children need to learning at such a young age and if they do they can be doing it at school and then you have more problems.
Its not right to hit back because 2 rights dont make a wrong
But they do make a left.reef_farmer said:
Interesting question, something I have not considered since my son is so young. I guess I'd tell them not to hit back until they reach te age to understand intent and at which case you'd have to tech them when to go tell someone and when to defend yourself.
My two boys are in kickboxing, and we teach them the only reason they fight is to stop the attacker, and only if they are pulling their hair, ears, or are being choked. My daughter on the other hand, we teach the same thing, but also if boys try to touch her in bad areas, she has every right to punch them in the nose, or you know what happens in the bottom region. Of course for the latter of the problems with our daughter the same goes for boys cause you know that kind of sick stuff happens. My neice was taught the same thing, except she calls it kicking boys in the bulbs (ball). That's what she used to call them. It's cute..... considering..... Just our thoughts. That's also what they teach at the kickboxing place.
i ask this question because i am 7 weeks into my summer program with kids... i've worked with children for 7 years and this is easily the most difficult group i've ever been around.
i asked nearly 300 kids (who KEEP FREAKIN HITTING EACH OTHER) how many of their parents tell them it's ok to hit back... not kidding, not stretching it, 2/3rds of the room raised their hands.
kids need to learn to defend themselves.... with adults all around them???
i asked nearly 300 kids (who KEEP FREAKIN HITTING EACH OTHER) how many of their parents tell them it's ok to hit back... not kidding, not stretching it, 2/3rds of the room raised their hands.
kids need to learn to defend themselves.... with adults all around them???
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I have raised 3 children and am also a school bus driver.
I think that your focus is on the wrong side of the problem.
Don't worry and don't focus so much on the kid's that are hitting back and defending themselves. Focus more on the children that are doing the original hit.
It is a frustrating situation. Hitting shouldn't be a solution to the problem, but you need to deal with the original sinner. And how you deal with it will set the example to the children.
If you as an adult deal with it properly the children that are being hit will start going to you for help if they feel safe with you and that you will take care of them and the problem fairly.
I think a child has the right to defend themselve's. The kid's are putting the other child back in line in the only language the other child (the initiater) seem's to understand. The problem alot of adult's make on the premise that hitting isn't a solution theme, is that they punish everybody. The aggressor and the victim. And that's where the confusion begins for the children and why the hitting continues.
Go to the root of the problem. Punish the aggressor. Let them know from the get go by that action that hitting is wrong. Once you start dealing with that end of it, the problem should subside.
Good Luck..
I think that your focus is on the wrong side of the problem.
Don't worry and don't focus so much on the kid's that are hitting back and defending themselves. Focus more on the children that are doing the original hit.
It is a frustrating situation. Hitting shouldn't be a solution to the problem, but you need to deal with the original sinner. And how you deal with it will set the example to the children.
If you as an adult deal with it properly the children that are being hit will start going to you for help if they feel safe with you and that you will take care of them and the problem fairly.
I think a child has the right to defend themselve's. The kid's are putting the other child back in line in the only language the other child (the initiater) seem's to understand. The problem alot of adult's make on the premise that hitting isn't a solution theme, is that they punish everybody. The aggressor and the victim. And that's where the confusion begins for the children and why the hitting continues.
Go to the root of the problem. Punish the aggressor. Let them know from the get go by that action that hitting is wrong. Once you start dealing with that end of it, the problem should subside.
Good Luck..
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I thought that I would add a little example of student behavior on my bus.
My bus is loaded with middle schooler's and it was the end of the day and we are ready to leave the school and take the little ones home. One of the first thing's that I do before I pull out is to check my mirrors. And low and behold I check my rearview and I see one child ontop of the other pummeling the one on the bottom. So I yell out and stop the bus. And the kid's break it up. Ok the kid on top doing the pummeling steps back, but then the kid on the bottom start's hitting away. As soon as he hear's me turn the bus off and pull my brake to get up and out of my seat, the 2nd child stops.
I bet you think that the top kid pummeling the bottom kid was the aggressor?
He wasn't. He was defending himself.
I would like to say before I get into the specific's is that we do have camera's on the bus and everything was on tape.
But both the kid's were honest with me. And that too was on tape.
I guess the kid that was being pummelled when I had looked in my mirror had started it all by spraying listerine into the other kids eye's. The kid that sprayed it said that he didn't spray him in the eye's. He sprayed him on the cheek. He couldn't help it if it went in the kids eye's.....
When the incident first happened I had them both move to the front seat. Once the other child made that statement, I let the one that was defending himself go back to where he was sitting before.
I wrote the incident up and turned the tape into the principal.
The child that started it with the listerine was suspended from school for a couple day's and kicked off the bus for a week. When he came back on the bus he was assigned to the front seat until I felt comfortable with him mixing with the rest of the kids. He had to prove to me that I could trust him. Just to let you know this child had pulled some other similar stunt's before. He's a beginning bully...
In reference to the child that had gotten sprayed with the listerine and reacted by punching the other kid. I also had a talk with him , not in the presence of the aggressor, but in the presence of the rest of the children on the bus. The child was honest with me. He said that he followed his gut reaction. When he got sprayed in the eye's he struck out. And could I blame him.. I said no I couldn't. I probably would of reacted in a similar way. But, that he not only just punched him he was pummeling him. That his reaction was just a bit of overkill. He then told me that after the kid squirted him he punched the kid and the kid started punching him back. That's why he was pummeling him when I had looked in the mirror. And he was telling the truth. Tape showed it all.
I didn't punish the victim and the school didn't find it necessary to punish him.
Each situation is different, but you have to take the time to talk to the kid's and to find out what really is going on. The one good thing with the kid's on my bus is that they all join in on the conversation and will fill me in on the real story. If someone isn't being honest and they are afraid to speak up in front of the group, they will tell me privately. They know that I will take care of it. I've learned to trust my kid's and to listen to them.
I usually get one incident a year. It's usually a new kid that doesn't know the rule's of the bus and is trying to find his place in the pecking order. They want to be top dog. I just have to remind them that I am top dog so they just need to sit back and relax and enjoy the ride. Make some friends, get along and show respect to your fellow human being.
I don't tolerate bullying of any kind. Once you get that point across, the hitting usually stops.
My bus is loaded with middle schooler's and it was the end of the day and we are ready to leave the school and take the little ones home. One of the first thing's that I do before I pull out is to check my mirrors. And low and behold I check my rearview and I see one child ontop of the other pummeling the one on the bottom. So I yell out and stop the bus. And the kid's break it up. Ok the kid on top doing the pummeling steps back, but then the kid on the bottom start's hitting away. As soon as he hear's me turn the bus off and pull my brake to get up and out of my seat, the 2nd child stops.
I bet you think that the top kid pummeling the bottom kid was the aggressor?
He wasn't. He was defending himself.
I would like to say before I get into the specific's is that we do have camera's on the bus and everything was on tape.
But both the kid's were honest with me. And that too was on tape.
I guess the kid that was being pummelled when I had looked in my mirror had started it all by spraying listerine into the other kids eye's. The kid that sprayed it said that he didn't spray him in the eye's. He sprayed him on the cheek. He couldn't help it if it went in the kids eye's.....
When the incident first happened I had them both move to the front seat. Once the other child made that statement, I let the one that was defending himself go back to where he was sitting before.
I wrote the incident up and turned the tape into the principal.
The child that started it with the listerine was suspended from school for a couple day's and kicked off the bus for a week. When he came back on the bus he was assigned to the front seat until I felt comfortable with him mixing with the rest of the kids. He had to prove to me that I could trust him. Just to let you know this child had pulled some other similar stunt's before. He's a beginning bully...
In reference to the child that had gotten sprayed with the listerine and reacted by punching the other kid. I also had a talk with him , not in the presence of the aggressor, but in the presence of the rest of the children on the bus. The child was honest with me. He said that he followed his gut reaction. When he got sprayed in the eye's he struck out. And could I blame him.. I said no I couldn't. I probably would of reacted in a similar way. But, that he not only just punched him he was pummeling him. That his reaction was just a bit of overkill. He then told me that after the kid squirted him he punched the kid and the kid started punching him back. That's why he was pummeling him when I had looked in the mirror. And he was telling the truth. Tape showed it all.
I didn't punish the victim and the school didn't find it necessary to punish him.
Each situation is different, but you have to take the time to talk to the kid's and to find out what really is going on. The one good thing with the kid's on my bus is that they all join in on the conversation and will fill me in on the real story. If someone isn't being honest and they are afraid to speak up in front of the group, they will tell me privately. They know that I will take care of it. I've learned to trust my kid's and to listen to them.
I usually get one incident a year. It's usually a new kid that doesn't know the rule's of the bus and is trying to find his place in the pecking order. They want to be top dog. I just have to remind them that I am top dog so they just need to sit back and relax and enjoy the ride. Make some friends, get along and show respect to your fellow human being.
I don't tolerate bullying of any kind. Once you get that point across, the hitting usually stops.
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Another thing that I will say to my children when I see them hitting each other.
I'll ask them why they are doing that. They will give me thier reasoning as to why they are hitting. So I will ask them, so if you do that to me, does that mean that I can hit you too? They'll say no. That that would be wrong for me to hit. that I would be mean if I did that. I then ask them what make's them think that they don't look mean when they are doing it? What make's them so special and different???
It usually get's them to thinking...
I'll ask them why they are doing that. They will give me thier reasoning as to why they are hitting. So I will ask them, so if you do that to me, does that mean that I can hit you too? They'll say no. That that would be wrong for me to hit. that I would be mean if I did that. I then ask them what make's them think that they don't look mean when they are doing it? What make's them so special and different???
It usually get's them to thinking...
villagewench you need to contact my babysitter. she is a good friend of mine and she also has 2 small oy's who arent' use to being around other kid's. Every day I pick my kid's up something happens that she doesn't know how to deal with. I keep telling her she needs to remember her son will be starting pre school this year and needs to learn how to handle being around other kid's. He doesn't share and he's very needy. Today he was upset that my daughter was playing with his toy and bit her.
As for the hitting thing no it's not right. If a kid hit's your id then your kid should tell an adult and not deal with it themself. They're to young ( I'm assuming you mean young kid's) to determine how to solve something like that.
Now I have told my daughter that if a boy kiss's her then she is to push him away and if he does it again she's to punch him. She's only 6 and there is a neighbor kid that likes to force himself on her. He's 5. I don't get how parent's let their kid get to that point at such a young age. Yes I know it's not right for my daughter to punch him but maybe if I teach her young then when she get's older and she's put in a bad situation she'll be able to defend herself without being afraid.
As for the hitting thing no it's not right. If a kid hit's your id then your kid should tell an adult and not deal with it themself. They're to young ( I'm assuming you mean young kid's) to determine how to solve something like that.
Now I have told my daughter that if a boy kiss's her then she is to push him away and if he does it again she's to punch him. She's only 6 and there is a neighbor kid that likes to force himself on her. He's 5. I don't get how parent's let their kid get to that point at such a young age. Yes I know it's not right for my daughter to punch him but maybe if I teach her young then when she get's older and she's put in a bad situation she'll be able to defend herself without being afraid.
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How old is the little boy that is doing the biting? If he is over the age of two she better be doing some major dicipline... If my boy bit another child because they were playing with his toy, I would probably throw my son's toy in the garbage. I hope that I don't sound too harsh here. I'm just a little surprised.red79 said:
I am thinking that your friend probably is pulled in a bunch of different directions. When you have little one's, plus babysitting also. things can get a little hectic and sometime's it's easier to get the other kids to comply than the one having the temper tantrum. She probably need's to stop and take a deep breath and start dealing with the demanding behavior of her son. Tell her it will only hurt for a minute.(no hitting involved... just the frustration of having to deal with a strong willed and determined child) But it will be well worth it to work it out now. The teen years aren't far behind and it could be a real mess if she doesn't start dealing with it . Strange but true. It doesn't get any easier having to say no.
And don't let guilt rule you in raising your children and having to say No. It's not a dirty word. It has purpose.
I wish her luck...
I think we as adult's and parent's influence the behavior of hitting or not as a solution to any given problem. Sort of the monkey see monkey do.
I don't see a child that hit's someone in self defense as a problem. I see a child that hit's first, out of frustration and by trying to influence or control someone as the problem.
No hitting isn't the solution, but it is up to us as adult's to correct the behavior when we see it.
Children aren't alway's around thier parent's and they do try thing's that may not be allowed at home. Independence.. And they do stupid thing's and make mistakes. We need to speak up and let these children know that it is unacceptable behavior.. Parent's aren't the only people that have influence in thier children's live's.
Good luck and get your daughter in karate classes. Give's them the confidence that they need and the wierd thing is, is that they probably will never need to use physical force. But good to know anyway...
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My kids have been taught that if ANY physical violence occurs, EVERYBODY has already lost...
I don't ever want them to hit anybody, and the ONLY reason to hit or hurt another kids is if it's critical for them to do so in order to escape the situation.
I've got a boy & a girl and have told them BOTH the same - no hitting. Hitting makes you a loser even if you didn't start it. However, if it IS started, you need to finish it only enough to get away.
"Words" beat "fists" every time, and sucking it up and taking a hit or two only makes you stronger and better than the person doing the hitting.
BUT - we do everything in our power to avoid physical punishment (spanking, slapping, etc.) in the home. Not saying I haven't spanked my kids - or won't - but each has had it only happen one or two times. If we do have to spank, that means everybody loses - including Mom & Dad.
Violence with kids stinks - I hate watching parents who readily smack & spank their kids instead of talking to them. I honestly believe casual (i.e. monthly or more) spanking leads kids to believe that hitting & violence is how you deal with bad situations. Not all the time, but too often, the most violent kids are the most "disciplined" kids if you know what I mean...
I don't ever want them to hit anybody, and the ONLY reason to hit or hurt another kids is if it's critical for them to do so in order to escape the situation.
I've got a boy & a girl and have told them BOTH the same - no hitting. Hitting makes you a loser even if you didn't start it. However, if it IS started, you need to finish it only enough to get away.
"Words" beat "fists" every time, and sucking it up and taking a hit or two only makes you stronger and better than the person doing the hitting.
BUT - we do everything in our power to avoid physical punishment (spanking, slapping, etc.) in the home. Not saying I haven't spanked my kids - or won't - but each has had it only happen one or two times. If we do have to spank, that means everybody loses - including Mom & Dad.
Violence with kids stinks - I hate watching parents who readily smack & spank their kids instead of talking to them. I honestly believe casual (i.e. monthly or more) spanking leads kids to believe that hitting & violence is how you deal with bad situations. Not all the time, but too often, the most violent kids are the most "disciplined" kids if you know what I mean...
well I have to agree
Olivia has been tought the same as Tim's the only reasob I would want her to hit is to protect her self under no option. I tell her to laugh off the teasing if you don't let them get under your skin they get bored but with hitting 1st try to get away once away discuss it with adults! teacher, parents etc.
Olivia has been tought the same as Tim's the only reasob I would want her to hit is to protect her self under no option. I tell her to laugh off the teasing if you don't let them get under your skin they get bored but with hitting 1st try to get away once away discuss it with adults! teacher, parents etc.
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Well in it's wierd round about way, the majority of people in this post do approve of hitting back in self defense. There seem's to be alot of if and's and but's.. Nothing really clear cut, especially if your a young child being told all these rule's of engagement.
No, children shouldn't be pounding on each other, but the reality of it is that a child's world is much different than an adult's. Reasoning the difference between danger and the basic bully is quite a challenge for a child.
And there is not alway's going to be someone for that child to run to in hope's of defining what this moment and motive is.
No, children shouldn't be pounding on each other, but the reality of it is that a child's world is much different than an adult's. Reasoning the difference between danger and the basic bully is quite a challenge for a child.
And there is not alway's going to be someone for that child to run to in hope's of defining what this moment and motive is.
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Putting it bluntly: I don't want my kids to hit, but if some punk is beating them up and they have to defend themselves, then darn straight - they should defend themselves.
I don't expect them to EVER start a physical confrontation - and that would be a MAJOR offense in our household if they did, but they have my blessing to finish it if that's what it takes to protect themselves!
I trust my kids' judgement (so far... it's still early!), and would NEVER do anything or "train them" in such a way as to remove their ability to physically protect themselves from an assault.
I don't expect them to EVER start a physical confrontation - and that would be a MAJOR offense in our household if they did, but they have my blessing to finish it if that's what it takes to protect themselves!
I trust my kids' judgement (so far... it's still early!), and would NEVER do anything or "train them" in such a way as to remove their ability to physically protect themselves from an assault.
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I agree with you.. I think that children should defend themselves.scooby doo said:
What I see as a major problem nowaday's is parent's hesitation on making that statement.
To respond directly to Blitz's statement of children hitting each other in the presence of adult's. The reason that is happening is because the adult's in that situation are missing something. Your not seeing the signal's going on around you and stopping certain behavior's before they go into the next stage.
And then your not dealing with the problem beside's saying that hitting is wrong. Those children don't feel safe enough to depend on the adult support that is there to get the initiator's to stop thier bullying. So they are taking it into thier own hand's. Plus the bully's feel confident enough that there is no real consequence to thier action and basically get away with thier behavior.
I know what it is like to deal with 30 to 60 children. I wish that I had the luxury of a classroom atmosphere to deal with it. A playground atmosphere would even be better...
The bitter is 4. She has another boy that is 2 and then I have a 6 yr old girl and a 1 yr old boy.villagewench said:
I think his main problem is that when he wakes up from his nap's my kid's are there and they are already playing with his toy's. So being crabby cause he just woke up makes him throw a fit. Today my kid's got dropped off early so they were there before and after his nap. She said they had a great day and there was very little fighting. I keep trying to give her advice but I don't think she's following through on it. I've told her what to do with mine in certain situation's and she still seem's to have a difficult time getting what she need's out of them.
wait... no i'm not.
Parents send their children to camps, clubs, latchkey, etc... so their children will be safe. Even if their child makes a mistake and hits someone for whatever reason it's not right for the child who got hit to strike back... IT'S A CHILD!!! that child has no right to distribute punishment to another child because they were hit first, all they did was take all the blame from the original hitter and share the blame. Both children deserve to be punished by an adult (a parent) at that point.
if it's ever allowed to hit back, what constitutes an original HIT??? someone hits you on the arm so you punch them in the nose? a tap is different then a punch but to a child both are "HITS"... who gives one child the right to decide whether he/she was "HIT"??? i've had kids this summer who believe they were "HIT" because someone struck their hand or leg, open handed or closed... so they respond with a blow to the face.
children do not have the right to punish each other, if a child hits back, they should be dealt with the same way the original hitter is dealt with or it tells them it's ok to take matters into their own hands.
what happens when they are 20 and they were taught this? is it ok to take the law into our hands as adults?
i do agree adults working with kids need to be proactive, but even the best situations and staff cannot see something that has no build up. meaning two children who dont know each other but one could bump another on accident and turn and strike back because he was "hit".
i'm also not talking about defending yourself as a child, no child should sit there and take a beating without fighting back to protect themselves. 9 out of 10 times though there is an adult within earshot and an out to the situation and children do not need to "protect" themselves, they can very easily make the right choice and walk away.
Parents send their children to camps, clubs, latchkey, etc... so their children will be safe. Even if their child makes a mistake and hits someone for whatever reason it's not right for the child who got hit to strike back... IT'S A CHILD!!! that child has no right to distribute punishment to another child because they were hit first, all they did was take all the blame from the original hitter and share the blame. Both children deserve to be punished by an adult (a parent) at that point.
if it's ever allowed to hit back, what constitutes an original HIT??? someone hits you on the arm so you punch them in the nose? a tap is different then a punch but to a child both are "HITS"... who gives one child the right to decide whether he/she was "HIT"??? i've had kids this summer who believe they were "HIT" because someone struck their hand or leg, open handed or closed... so they respond with a blow to the face.
children do not have the right to punish each other, if a child hits back, they should be dealt with the same way the original hitter is dealt with or it tells them it's ok to take matters into their own hands.
what happens when they are 20 and they were taught this? is it ok to take the law into our hands as adults?
i do agree adults working with kids need to be proactive, but even the best situations and staff cannot see something that has no build up. meaning two children who dont know each other but one could bump another on accident and turn and strike back because he was "hit".
i'm also not talking about defending yourself as a child, no child should sit there and take a beating without fighting back to protect themselves. 9 out of 10 times though there is an adult within earshot and an out to the situation and children do not need to "protect" themselves, they can very easily make the right choice and walk away.
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I think this was your original question?Blitz said:
It wasn't whether someone bumped into them and that they considered it a hit so they struck back?
Your reasoning isn't the same as a childs reasoning. You are asking a 10 year old to think and reason like a 20 something year old.
Kids (the majority anyway) Have not reached that maturity level yet...
I drive a bus with up to 60 children behind me everyday.. I know I can't see everything coming my way in the behavior of the children. I am sure I miss alot. But I also see alot. I can tell the mood of the bus and the kids. I can see the little sign's. I'll just say "hey" and the guilty kid say's "what, you talking to me". And I say No, I'm talking to your momma.. And they laugh and it stop's for the moment. I don't need to say thier name. They know who there are. You just have to really watch them. (and that's looking at them in the rearview mirror) I sometimes wonder when I find the time to actually drive the dang bus..
What type of things do you do to deal with hitting. Do you have them come and follow you around for awhile. As a lunch Mom, when I would get a couple kids fighting, they became my best friends. I would actually say to them, guess what? you two are my best buddy's now. You get to follow me around for the rest of your recess and we get to talk. They had to walk around the playground with me and keep me company. I would talk to them and get them to talk to each other. They would moan and groan and make a big stink about it in the beginning, but everything worked out. Either the conversation worked or they really hated being with the lunch lady.. Either way, they thought twice about fighting the next time around... What ever works...
I don't know what type of time you have, but you have to find a way to give some of those kids some one on one time. They need the attention and they need someone to listen to them. Even if they know they are wrong and you tell them they were wrong.
I don't know if any of this make's any sense or if I am getting my point out there. But what you are dealing with is normal child behavior. It's not just the parent's that have to teach it. So many children nowaday's spend the majority of thier childhood in structured enviroments. They don't really get the one on one time with thier friends hanging out in the nieghborhood. learning how to get along...
There is a lot to be said about just being a kid and having downtime in the hood...
P.S.
Alway's make eye contact... Very Important... They tend to be deaf, and it helps to look them in the eye when your diciplining them.. Make sure that you have thier full attention.
Good luck....
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The 4 year old is probably feeling a bit territorial. You may want to send your kid's over with a few of thier own toy's. Tell them that they have to play with thier's until the four yr old get's up. Let the little one wake up before sharing his toy's. Just so he doesn't feel that his space has been totally invaded.red79 said:
Maybe your babysitter can have a little toy box that is strictly for your kids toy's.
She also may want to get a share box. Both groups of kid's put thier toy's in there. The 4 yr old can pick a few of his toy's that the other's can play with. Also have him pick out a couple toy's that are strictly his and that the other kid's can't play with them with out asking first.
I hope that all made sense.. Haven't had my cup of coffee yet..
Good Luck... Margo
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