Article 1, section 8

DLBerlin · Jul 24, 2009

The one thing I see missing most in these discussions is the fact THE COSTS ARE TOO HIGH
Insurance costs too much, Drs cost too much, drugs cost too much, hospitals cost too much. The pharmaceutical companies can afford to offer 80 BILLION in discounts over the next ten years to medicaid. How much profit do you have to make to be able to offer 8o billion in discounts?
But oh yeah, that's the sacred capitalism, cant fault that.
Much easier to blame it on the poor people who cant afford insurance and who's jobs wont offer it. And dont blame the poor businesses who wont offer insurance, blame the people who work there for their lack of ambition, or for deciding to buy food for their kids instead of paying for insurance. Somebody has to work at these places.

Why do Blue Cross CEO's make millions of dollars a year? Is that why we pay 750$ a month for insurance, so they can give their employees multi million dollar compensation?

Top executives at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan were paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonuses in 2008 months before the state’s largest insurer announced layoffs and premium increases to policyholders.

In January, Blue Cross announced it planned to reduce its workforce by 1,000 workers, impose a non-union salary freeze and reduce spending in number of areas to help reduce a projected loss of $1 billion over the next three years.

Here was the compensation last year for several of the top executives at Blue Cross, according to documents filed with the state Office of Financial and Insurance Regulation.

• CEO Dan Loepp earned total compensation of $1.79 million in 2008. Loepp, who became CEO in July 2005, received $910,000 in base pay, $727,000 in bonus and $160,000 in other compensation. He earned $1.65 million in 2007.

• CFO Mark Bartlett earned $1.2 million in total compensation. Bartlett received $571,000 in base salary, $559,000 in bonuses and $108,000 in other compensation. He earned $1.17 million in 2007.

• D. Robertson, vice president of innovation and emerging markets, earned total compensation of $1 million. He earned $439,000 in 2007.

• Darrell Middleton, senior vice president of business efficiency and human performance, earned total compensation of $995,000. He earned $580,000 in 2007.

• Jean Carlson, senior vice president of subsidiary operations, earned total compensation of $960,000. She earned $707,000 in 2007.

• Kevin Seitz, executive vice president of health care value enhancement, earned total compensation of $936,000. He earned $877,000 in 2007.

Four other former Blue Cross executives received large retirement packages:

• Les Viegas, former executive vice president, received $3.46 million in total compensation. He earned $998,000 in 2007.

• William Smith, former executive vice president of operations, received $2.06 million. He earned $943,000 in 2007.

• John Austin, former senior vice present and chief actuarial officer, received $1.49 million. He earned $802,000 in 2007.

• Jann Cantelon, former vice president of group servicing and support, received $1.34 million. He earned $341,000 in 2007.

I think we are coming at the whole problem from the wrong side.

Mike · Jul 24, 2009

There is a lot of cost involved for doctors because of....you guessed it...INSURANCE. They have to pay malpractice insurance and depending on the specialty they may pay a lot more than people think. Obstetricians pay big dollars because of litigation mostly. Doctors do not make what people think they make. When you consider the 100K or more in students loans for med school that many of them carry and you start paying that with interest it is like a mortgage payment! Specialist make more than general practitioners do no doubt but they also have more school / training because of it.

From the perspective I have it is insurance companies and the drug companies that are reaping the most rewards. Some medications are rediculous as far as cost!!! If your insurance company wont cover what you need your doctor has to send in a form to get it authorized and they have to make a case as to why the drug on the insurace companies formulary will not work for you. That is extra time that the doctors who need to be treating patients are rolled up in more paperwork. The hospitals are also telling doctors that they better be meeting Discharge dates according the reimbursement that the insurance companies are paying because they cannot afford to lose money.

labman · Jul 24, 2009

well

the other factor is I'm not going to pay high taxes for health care as well as high health insurance unless it's setup in a way that I can get premium health insurance in which case my health insurance should still come down. but socialized like health care scares me. will we be able to pick our doctors? hospital? what about the hypochondriacs in the world this is Pandora's box for them. or when I was in the UK they said people go to the doctor for anything and everything because they figure they are already paying for it. wait's are always very long from regular doctor visits to real medical care.

DoubleD · Jul 24, 2009

I just wanted to let people know that I work for an insurance company and stand to lose a lot of business if universal health care is passed. That being said, I am not advocating it- I just want people to know that something needs to be done immediately. And also that the line that only deadbeats and working poor need it is untrue.

There is over 16% unemployment in Michigan right now. Add to that parttime workers, employees who are not offered healthcare, etc and the problem is definitely not someone who is not willing to pay or work taking your hard earned tax dollars.

The other thing I did not mention is that Medicare only covers acute care in the hospital or Drs office. It does not cover any long term care. Long term care is considered custodial such as a person who has had a stroke, or even someone recovering from a knee replacement. I talk to seniors everyday who have lost everything they worked their whole lives for because of a sickness or needing care. Even the things that medicare part b covers is 80%. Part A has a $1068 deductible for hospitalization( by benefit period not annually). So the choices are to pay for a supplement, go broke or do not get the needed care.

Health reform needs to happen, period. I dont trust the government anymore than anyone else but I know for a fact that Big Pharma, the insurance companies, hospitals, etc ARE NOT going to reform themselves.

I would encourage everyone to watch the documentary Sicko by Michael Moore. I know a lot of people do not agree with him. But if you can watch it with an open mind you might learn some things about how other countries manage to provide care.

Mike · Jul 24, 2009

I would like to a plan pass that makes sense. One that will reign in cost where the bleeding is really bad...drug cost. When you think about it a huge part of treating a patient is the medications they need. If those cost can be reduced then the total cost of treating a patient could be reduced...making healthcare more affordable and available.

Mike · Jul 24, 2009

Medicare only covers acute care in the hospital or Drs office. It does not cover any long term care. Long term care is considered custodial such as a person who has had a stroke, or even someone recovering from a knee replacement

Medicare will cover the first 20 days 100% in a short term rehab for say a knee replacement, strokes, ect. On day 21 the patient is responsible for a 20% co-pay as medicare then covers 80% for a total of 100 days for the diagnosis. If the patient goes home after exhausting the 100 days, goes back to the hospital and is it decided that they need mroe acute re-hab medicare will not pick it up unless they have been "basic" care for 60 days. The other thing is that the 100 days is not a guarantee it is "up to". The patient has to show progress in therapy or have another diagnosis that skills them if they are dropped from therapy. Long Term care in the true sense of the word (Nursing Home placement) is not covered under medicare. Hospice care is covered but get this......room and board is not if the patient needs palcement unless they are in a terminal pain crisis which is considered acute care.

DoubleD · Jul 24, 2009

LOL Mike are you a licensed agent too? The average skilled nursing care that is provided out of the 100 days allowed is 27.5 days. Either people get better or do not respond to rehab which kicks them out of the program. Skilled nursing care covers rehabilitation, if it is a custodial issue to begin with it is very hard to get any care paid for by Medicare.

And to answer a point that was made earlier yes Medicare is allowed under 65 for the disabled but only 2 supplements are offered under 65 and they run over $400 a month to cover medicare deductibles and copays, which a lot of people cannot afford if they are disabled and on SSI.

Mike · Jul 24, 2009

LOL Mike are you a licensed agent too? The average skilled nursing care that is provided out of the 100 days allowed is 27.5 days. Either people get better or do not respond to rehab which kicks them out of the program. Skilled nursing care covers rehabilitation, if it is a custodial issue to begin with it is very hard to get any care paid for by Medicare.

No I am not a licensed agent

I am a Registered Nurse and have a lot of experience with Medicare reviews (as a case manager I reviewed patient status weekly) and calling to get extensions for patients in rehab. For custodial care you're absolutely right. Unless you have a lot of money then you better hope you qualify for medicaid and be prepared for the kind of nursing home you will be living in. I believe the reimbursement rate is something like 145.00 a day per patient day for medicaid as compared to 400.00 plus for patients hitting ultra high rehab codes who have medicare. If the stroke is acute and the patient discharges form the hospital it is skillable. If it is an old stroke and/or the patient plateau's in therpy and is dropped then long term care and cost come up.

Personally it makes me sick but that is the system.

jasoncw · Jul 24, 2009

DoubleD said:
And to answer a point that was made earlier yes Medicare is allowed under 65 for the disabled but only 2 supplements are offered under 65 and they run over $400 a month to cover medicare deductibles and copays, which a lot of people cannot afford if they are disabled and on SSI.

Don't forget about the ESRD patients as well.

DoubleD · Jul 24, 2009

Also skilled nursing care after the first 20 days has a copay of $133.50 a DAY.

This is exactly why my company sells policies that cover long term care and home health care. Medicare pays very little for these if any and we try to protect people from losing everything if they need long term care. My dad has MS and the first thing I did was get him a LTC policy so he did not end up broke and in a medicaid nursing home situation.

Mike · Jul 24, 2009

A lot of patients don't understand the 20% co-pay either. They believe that they have medicare and it covers 100 days. When we tell them that they have a week or two left in thereapy because they are not making progress many of them get pretty upset. If they have BCBS as a supplement or PArt B then the 20% is not as much of an issue. I know some places will not accept medicaid as a secondary (and they do not participate at all in the medicaid program - they are strictly rehab with no LTC wing) so some people just get settled in at one place and have to be moved again because they are not making progress and cannot be skilled. The hospital discharge planners dp not tell patients this or there families. They just want to get them out so they are not buring through their reimbursement while they wait for placement.

slapshot · Jul 24, 2009

I will totally accept Government Health Care in whatever form they see fit if they do just one thing. Put themselves on the same plan. That is not too much to ask. Then and only then will I have the confidence that they have mine or the peoples best interest at heart.

gtptom · Jul 25, 2009

complaining about universial health saying "why do i work my butt off to pay for your health care" is preety naive. That is simular to saying I don't go to parks so why should i pay for their maintanice, I don't drive why should I pay for roads, I wasn't affected by hurricane Katrina why should I pay for their homes to be rebuilt, I was home schooled whay do I have to pay for public education etc!?. The purpose of government is to serve the greater good of the public, health care is outragous I got a bill for pain medication because it was unesscarry treatment for my broken hand! if the feds are in volved in this and keep hospitals out of my pocket I am all for it this is a good thing!

Guest · Jul 25, 2009

gtptom said:
complaining about universial health saying "why do i work my butt off to pay for your health care" is preety naive. That is simular to saying I don't go to parks so why should i pay for their maintanice, I don't drive why should I pay for roads, I wasn't affected by hurricane Katrina why should I pay for their homes to be rebuilt, I was home schooled whay do I have to pay for public education etc!?. The purpose of government is to serve the greater good of the public, health care is outragous I got a bill for pain medication because it was unesscarry treatment for my broken hand! if the feds are in volved in this and keep hospitals out of my pocket I am all for it this is a good thing!

Guess you've never stood in line at meijers behind a homie with more $$$ in gold around his neck then probably 90% of the people on this site make in a month.... paying for his food w/ food stamps and his 40 with with a $100 bill! And since you were just there for a couple things, leave just after him and his posse and watch them get into a caddy newer then your vehichle with rims bigger then your t.v.

Yeah sorry I am tired of paying for things for people who make more money doing illegal things then I do working my butt off! Heck I have a guy that claims to be my uncle that hasn't worked all my life, just been milking the system because he is to lazy to work and has a bad back (but not bad enough that he can't work on cars or go metal scrapping), my wife went to school with a couple girls who's entire family was on disability because they ate themselves to rediculous weights and cannot work because they run out of breath if they have to take more then 2 steps to anywhere other then the fridge!

The purpose of the government and what the government actually does are 2 entirely different things. You know there is a part in the constitution that says no double taxation? Hmmm... My check gets taxed 3 or 4 times before I even get it, then there is property tax, sales tax, ciggarette tax, gasonline tax, etc. etc. etc. and then by april 15th income tax although my income has already been taxed.... never mind that's true because its waaaaaay more then double taxed

Just wondering but can you name 1 single government program "for the greater good of the american public" that has actually worked (legally), without loopholes to where someone who shouldn't have been part of that program could get into it, while everyone that should be able to use that program actually has the chance to do so, and is not slated to end/ hasn't already ended because of running out of funding?

Sanfernando · Jul 25, 2009

munchinacros said:
Guess you've never stood in line at meijers behind a homie with more $$$ in gold around his neck then probably 90% of the people on this site make in a month.... paying for his food w/ food stamps and his 40 with with a $100 bill! And since you were just there for a couple things, leave just after him and his posse and watch them get into a caddy newer then your vehichle with rims bigger then your t.v.

Yeah sorry I am tired of paying for things for people who make more money doing illegal things then I do working my butt off! Heck I have a guy that claims to be my uncle that hasn't worked all my life, just been milking the system because he is to lazy to work and has a bad back (but not bad enough that he can't work on cars or go metal scrapping), my wife went to school with a couple girls who's entire family was on disability because they ate themselves to rediculous weights and cannot work because they run out of breath if they have to take more then 2 steps to anywhere other then the fridge!

The purpose of the government and what the government actually does are 2 entirely different things. You know there is a part in the constitution that says no double taxation? Hmmm... My check gets taxed 3 or 4 times before I even get it, then there is property tax, sales tax, ciggarette tax, gasonline tax, etc. etc. etc. and then by april 15th income tax although my income has already been taxed.... never mind that's true because its waaaaaay more then double taxed

Just wondering but can you name 1 single government program "for the greater good of the american public" that has actually worked (legally), without loopholes to where someone who shouldn't have been part of that program could get into it, while everyone that should be able to use that program actually has the chance to do so, and is not slated to end/ hasn't already ended because of running out of funding?

I understand about not wanting to give anyone a free ride but until you have seen true poverty I don't care about your statement.

Personally I thought it was something that only happened in third world countries. That is until I moved out of state (Alabama specifically). When you see an entire family fishing for dinner using freshly cut cane poles and keeping EVERYTHING they catch, including 2" bluegill, because they have NOTHING ELSE TO EAT, trying to tell them not to keep fish due to the dangerously high mercury levels seems pretty pointless... (high mercury levels were for largemouth bass).

In my opinion anyone that doesn't at the very least support free health care for children is a monster. Yes there are people that abuse the system and there always will be. Personally I would rather pay the money to cover the people that actually need it and the people that abuse the system than not pay for anyone at all.

PaintGuru · Jul 25, 2009

munchinacros said:
Just wondering but can you name 1 single government program "for the greater good of the american public" that has actually worked (legally), without loopholes to where someone who shouldn't have been part of that program could get into it, while everyone that should be able to use that program actually has the chance to do so, and is not slated to end/ hasn't already ended because of running out of funding?

The FDA.......

Mike · Jul 25, 2009

CMS is another one.

DLBerlin · Jul 25, 2009

CMH also .

Guest · Jul 26, 2009

PaintGuru said:
The FDA......CMS..... CMH.

FDA..... Remember that big peanut recall because a plant was operating with rat crap all over and not up to health code in any way shape or form, with its #1 buyer being schools across america, not to mention operating without ever being inspected? How many deaths/ hopsitilizations were directly linked to that? I'd call that a pretty big failure for the welfare of the american public.

CMS (medicare??) Please, it will run out of money like everything else. Also trust me there are people that get that, that shouldn't as well.

CMH (Childrens Mercy Hospitols? or Center of Military History?? lol) I'll give ya the kids hospitols because its for the kids. I don't have a problem with doing things for the youth of america, however I think the system should snip, tie and burn certain parts of people who have kids just to get a bigger welfare check/ more food stamps! A plan like your allowed to have 1 child while on the system (past what you entered into the program with ... ie.. if you have 2 you max at 3) after you have that one you can choose to stay on the system and not have any more kids on your own, or get snipped or get off the program!

Mike · Jul 26, 2009

munchinacros said:
FDA..... Remember that big peanut recall because a plant was operating with rat crap all over and not up to health code in any way shape or form, with its #1 buyer being schools across america, not to mention operating without ever being inspected? How many deaths/ hopsitilizations were directly linked to that? I'd call that a pretty big failure for the welfare of the american public.

CMS (medicare??) Please, it will run out of money like everything else. Also trust me there are people that get that, that shouldn't as well.

CMH (Childrens Mercy Hospitols? or Center of Military History?? lol) I'll give ya the kids hospitols because its for the kids. I don't have a problem with doing things for the youth of america, however I think the system should snip, tie and burn certain parts of people who have kids just to get a bigger welfare check/ more food stamps! A plan like your allowed to have 1 child while on the system (past what you entered into the program with ... ie.. if you have 2 you max at 3) after you have that one you can choose to stay on the system and not have any more kids on your own, or get snipped or get off the program!

CMH - Community Mental Health.

CMS - They regulate medicare and make sure providers are not milking the system after the abuses of the past.

Both are worthwhile even if they go broke in the future.

Article 1, section 8

DLBerlin

Mike

labman

DoubleD

Mike

Mike

DoubleD

Mike

jasoncw

DoubleD

Mike

slapshot

gtptom

Guest

Sanfernando

PaintGuru

Mike

DLBerlin

Guest

Mike

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